Yixing

[Chadrinkincat]

@Mark-S
A few more

[Mark-S]

@Bok @Chadrinkincat

Phew! I feared that my F1 pot could be a very good fake because of this line. Thanks for the pictures

What I do not understand is that @Youzi told me this to my other pot:

You can see the straight cast lines Across the spout and the handle.

In that case, it seems, that maybe the body was molded and the spout and handle casted, and attached to the body.

The details are quite crisp on this teapot. So I am wondering what's so different with this pot. Or maybe the pictures weren't good enough? The clay feels the same on the entire outer surface.

viewtopic.php?p=21341#p21341

viewtopic.php?p=20731#p20731

Btw.: I found the new pot on Facebook. It looks similar and at least one of them has a seamline too. http://www.facebook.com/groups/49951519 ... pWAiDFE6sL If anybody knows the book they are using please let me know.

[Youzi]

@Mark-S

The handle could be molded or slipped separately from the body, then later attached.

I'm not sure how the handle and spout could be molded though. Maybe half side half side, then later attached?

[Mark-S]

@Youzi
Okay, thanks for the update. I'm glad I kept the pot. It's beautiful despite some flaws.

I'm not sure how the handle and spout could be molded though. Maybe half side half side, then later attached?

That's what I thought, but I don't know why they should use two moulds and not one for the handle. Apparently that's something only a potter can answer.

-

That's a similar pot from my collection without a seam line. That brings me to the question if this pot is more valuable to collectors than the other one. It should be from the same era.

I have read things like "great clay" a lot, and I always wondered how you know what's great clay and what's not. If you got two teapots from the same period with the same type of clay, for example Zini, how do you know which clay is better (performs better) just by the look?

[DailyTX]

Youzi
Okay, thanks for the update. I'm glad I kept the pot. It's beautiful despite some flaws.

I'm not sure how the handle and spout could be molded though. Maybe half side half side, then later attached?

That's what I thought, but I don't know why they should use two moulds and not one for the handle. Apparently that's something only a potter can answer.

-

That's a similar pot from my collection without a seam line. That brings me to the question if this pot is more valuable to collectors than the other one. It should be from the same era.

I have read things like "great clay" a lot, and I always wondered how you know what's great clay and what's not. If you got two teapots from the same period with the same type of clay, for example Zini, how do you know which clay is better (performs better) just by the look?

@Mark-S
Mould is commonly used in F1 pots, and what we call modern half hand made pots also use mould. For slipcast pots, you can generally see a seam line that’s on the handle and sprout which both line aligned.

As for quality of clay talks, it’s a very complex question. First, you need to learn the type of specific zini, the common minerals found in that specific zini, and the amount + diverse minerals. Once you got all those info down, then you need to learn firing range, and how the clay interact with tea. Some people buy pots using a strategy/assumption that if a pot has good craftsmanship, it would have good clay. I think this saying may be more valid 100+ years ago. Same as zhuni would have wrinkles...

[Youzi]

Youzi
Okay, thanks for the update. I'm glad I kept the pot. It's beautiful despite some flaws.

I'm not sure how the handle and spout could be molded though. Maybe half side half side, then later attached?

That's what I thought, but I don't know why they should use two moulds and not one for the handle. Apparently that's something only a potter can answer.

-

That's a similar pot from my collection without a seam line. That brings me to the question if this pot is more valuable to collectors than the other one. It should be from the same era.

I have read things like "great clay" a lot, and I always wondered how you know what's great clay and what's not. If you got two teapots from the same period with the same type of clay, for example Zini, how do you know which clay is better (performs better) just by the look?

I mean, then how would you put the clay into the mold? The openings on the mold is too small compared to the Body. If you've seen the half hand way of making a pot, maybe it's easier to imagine my dilemma.

Good clay.... Hmm....
Good pot = good ore + good processing + good hammering + good construction + good firing

Usually the processing of the ore and the construction of the teapot is done by different people, studios. So the radiation equation is controlled by three parties: processor, (raw ore + processing) potter (hammering + (aging) + construction) and the kiln master (firing)

A good yixing teapot should cultivate, develop natural patina rather quickly (noticable difference in about a month), it shouldn't take away too much aroma, when you add hot water to used pot, you should smell the previous teas (depends on tea), it's important to say, that the pot shouldn't mute or ruin the taste even when it's unused, new. (after the initial cleaning).

[Mark-S]

For slipcast pots, you can generally see a seam line that’s on the handle and sprout which both line aligned.

I had to check multiple pots to understand what you meant. I attached 3 different slipcast signs to this post. Maybe it will be useful for someone.

Maybe in a couple of years I have learned enough about minerals, clay types and firing temperatures. For now, my strategy is to buy F1 pots in the hope that the clay quality is good and because they are quite inexpensive.

@Youzi
I don't think that the openings are too small, but maybe it is a lot easier to do it in two steps. That's an example of modern slip casting:


https://www.gruenertee.com/japanische-t ... ickerguss/ (in German with many pics)

Good pot = good ore + good processing + good hammering + good construction + good firing

And that's why I cannot understand how people can judge the clay quality just from looking at pictures.

[Youzi]

@Mark-S
What I mean is that the pot is not made of one cast.
but the teapot is made of three parts separately. The spout, the handle and the body. Because in this style (Nature) the spout and handle is difficult to make and time consuming, they also have to be Molded or Casted, and then attached to the body.

If the spout and the handle would've been made by hand, then there wouldn't be any visible lines, unless it's intentional.

There is more than just Full hand > Half Hand > slipcast
For example transitions and other techniques.

I'm not sure we are misunderstanding each other, or I misunderstood you

[Mark-S]

If the spout and the handle would've been made by hand, then there wouldn't be any visible lines, unless it's intentional.

The use of moulds is no big issue for me. I was searching for a pattern to see if a teapot was made using slip casting. I think the best way to see this is by touching the clay and looking for a hole on the inside where the handle is attached to the body. The slip cast pots I use as a reference have all a really smooth surface and feel almost the same on the inside/outside.

[Bok]

Maybe in a couple of years I have learned enough about minerals, clay types and firing temperatures. For now, my strategy is to buy F1 pots in the hope that the clay quality is good and because they are quite inexpensive.

Strategy sounds like a good plan – BUT...

The pots you are buying may be F1, but by the looks of it, they are predominantly from the 80-90-late period, which is when the so called "good clay" was a thing of the past and they heavily added other things to it. Which explains why you think they are cheap, as there are millions of them out there.

The good clay was 60-early 70s (mostly hongni) and those are far from cheap (not talking about the occasional forgotten item).

Also take into the equation that a lot what people think are F1, are actually F2, F5 or from other studios, the differences can be minute and it takes a lot of experience with the real ones to see the difference. One reason I am staying away from ornamented tea pots, those are popular for faking and copying. And why you can find a looooot of these even abroad. Explains also why the FB group does not want to discuss them. I talked to Dr Lu once and he said, he does not want to touch the subject, too complicated and people get angry to quickly. High prices and egos involved... No one who just spent a couple of hundreds or more on pot, wants to be told it's fake Originally there were more books planned, but after the feedback of the first he did not want to get involved with the second.

[Bok]

I have read things like "great clay" a lot, and I always wondered how you know what's great clay and what's not.

To be honest that puzzles me a lot as well... I think in the majority of cases people obviously just don't know what they are talking about.
Especially if I look at the pots they are describing as such, I don't know how to match them.

From my point of view:
If you get the chance to handle and use a lot of different clay over the years, you can develop an eye for how these look in general. The grain, the firing spots and tiny impurities, the shine or lack thereof, the colouring etc. The sum of the parts can allow for a quick first judgement. The final proof of it lies in the cup and the physical object when you touch and feel it (weight is a factor as well). Let's just say it's complicated.

[DailyTX]

Also take into the equation that a lot what people think are F1, are actually F2, F5 or from other studios, the differences can be minute and it takes a lot of experience with the real ones to see the difference. One reason I am staying away from ornamented tea pots, those are popular for faking and copying. And why you can find a looooot of these even abroad. Explains also why the FB group does not want to discuss them. I talked to Dr Lu once and he said, he does not want to touch the subject, too complicated and people get angry to quickly. High prices and egos involved... No one who just spent a couple of hundreds or more on pot, wants to be told it's fake Originally there were more books planned, but after the feedback of the first he did not want to get involved with the second.
[/quote]

It seems people are interested in the financial value over the artistic value...ornamented pots, I think have a different standard of rating. Just like that blue pot with rope like handle and cannon sprout I posted in another thread, it’s probably a pot I will never brew tea but it’s still one of my favorite pots

[Bok]

@DailyTX I think it is because ornamented pots are more popular, they are more expensive.

Simplicity is always less appreciated than exuberance (generalising here), maybe with the glorious exception of the Japanese. But even there one can find the complete opposite of the wabi sabi.

[karma]

I purchased a small teapot from Gao at yinchenteapot. It was fully handmade and the quality exceeded my expectations. His mother has been making teapots in Yixing for around 40 years and the teapot I purchased was made by one of her students.

Given the shape and that it is modern clay, I expected it to be a shelf bunny but the teapot is significantly better than I expected it to be.

@Baisao

Hi sorry for bringing up an old post of yours, but I googled around and you're about the only one I can find talking about this guy! I'm interested in getting one of his pots, but I'm semi-new to the world of buying yixing. I've only bought 3 before, and while i've gotten to use some very nice ones extensively, I haven't been able to buy much before. Does the pot still hold up? Would you still recommend buying from him? I'm particularly interested in buying this pot for use with Puer https://www.yinchenteapot.com/productde ... 63389.html

[Bok]

Hi sorry for bringing up an old post of yours, but I googled around and you're about the only one I can find talking about this guy!

Weird... he's the new everyone's darling on the bloc at the moment! Lots of talk about his offerings on IG and also here. From the comments I gather that people are in general happy with his pots. Smart guy, jumped the Great Firewall of China, thus skipping the Western middle man and sell directly to Westerners