What Oolong Are You Drinking

[LeoFox]

The less said about teahabitat the better. But that won't discourage people from being curious because of the price and woo-woo. All I can say is that the quality of their dancong and puerh is abysmal, even at half the price they cant beat the likes of hojo or farmerleaf.

I would say theyre not awful, hahaha. If you want awful - try yunnan sourcing.

I heard the prices from imen are much more fair if you buy in bulk - but it's hard to deal with that lady.*

Personally- i would say the dancong is decent. Interestingly, this one reminds me of lightly aged big tree sheng.

* few years ago i tried her longjing. It was bitter, astringent, and sour. I complained to her directly and she said this - quoting in full hahahahaha:

Water, it needs purified water from water store. Start with 2 g/100 ml gaiwan, quick 20 seconds after a quick rinse. Adjust time as needed. Do not use stone ware, or glass. Porcelain is good, celadon is better. Do not use Japanese clay or porcelain, the clay from jap doesn't work with Chinese teas.

[Baisao]

The less said about teahabitat the better. But that won't discourage people from being curious because of the price and woo-woo. All I can say is that the quality of their dancong and puerh is abysmal, even at half the price they cant beat the likes of hojo or farmerleaf.

I would not say TH’s dançong is abysmal. I’ve been drinking her Eternity Fragrance, Phoenix Shit, and Night Jasmine Fragrance and I’d rank them in that order. They are very nice for dançong and are not artificially scented like 50-75% of the dançongs on the market. The body feeling is very clean and not dopey, again, unlike 50-75% of dançongs on the market.

Like most tea, I’m sure the cheaper offerings are not as good as the higher end offerings. The same can be said of Hojo’s.

I think her statements about demineralized water are kooky and baseless. All tea and coffee need water with minerals, though they each have different problems to be solved with them. To paraphrase what someone recently wrote elsewhere: you can build a soup without a stock but it would be stupid not to.

The Iceland Springs water has enough minerals to be tasty but not so much body as to clash with the large amount of body in some of her dançongs.

Her personality is notorious. I have multiple friends who have accidentally found themselves on her bad side because she can’t take even gentle criticism.

Her politics are weird: if she hates the US as much as she loves the CCP, nothing but old fashioned US capitalist greed is stopping her from going back. Maybe she’s found herself in a monkey’s trap. Regardless, her 50 Cent Party nonsense is tiresome.

I like her high end dançongs but I’m already looking for other vendors because of her noxious behavior.

Imen and the late Winnie Yu create quite the contrast.

[Ethan Kurland]

you can build a soup without a stock but it would be stupid not to.

Maybe she’s found herself in a monkey’s trap. Regardless, 50_Cent_Party Cent Party nonsense is tiresome.

Baiso, it is a pleasure to read this post. I agree good stock makes good soup. A quote from the movie La Grande Boufe (not sure of the spelling, it is French for buffet), "A chef's stock is his stock in trade." If I am making soup without good stock I use okra to add body.

I'll research what a monkey's trap is & also the 50-Cent Party. I try to welcome criticism or contrary opinions about my teas or tea-vending. I would prefer hearing that my description of flavors or lack of description was disappointing to wondering why some customers have not ordered for quite some time.

Keep posting. Cheers

[Baisao]

you can build a soup without a stock but it would be stupid not to.

Maybe she’s found herself in a monkey’s trap. Regardless, 50_Cent_Party Cent Party nonsense is tiresome.

Baiso, it is a pleasure to read this post. I agree good stock makes good soup. A quote from the movie La Grande Boufe (not sure of the spelling, it is French for buffet), "A chef's stock is his stock in trade." If I am making soup without good stock I use okra to add body.

I'll research what a monkey's trap is & also the 50-Cent Party. I try to welcome criticism or contrary opinions about my teas or tea-vending. I would prefer hearing that my description of flavors or lack of description was disappointing to wondering why some customers have not ordered for quite some time.

Keep posting. Cheers

I should check out that film. And many thanks, Ethan. I feel none of us can grow without being able to accept constructive criticism or admitting our faults. I’m happy to hear you feel the same way.

Here is a description of a monkey trap:

“…bush hunters catch monkeys with a surprisingly simple trap. Simply a jar with a small opening tied to a tree with a large piece of the monkey’s favourite food inside. When the monkey reaches to get the food they cant pull their hand out of the jar as long as they are holding onto the fruit. Even seeing the danger of the hunter approaching is not enough to scare the monkey into dropping the fruit and making an escape.”

Since I was a kid I’ve seen this used as an analogy for a state of being trapped by greediness or attachment. We are free if we let go but trapped if we hold on.

I’ve even seen documentary footage of this where a hole in a tree is used, so it is actually a literal phenomenon among the bush people of Southern Africa.

[Sunyata]

I wouldn't speak about non-tea related matters or speculate about the owner's personality. So I would just speak based off my experience drinking this vendor's teas. And yes, I have out of curiosity forked out quite a bit just to see why everyone's praising certain vendors. My thoughts are "Is this really the state of tea in the West?" As someone who is perhaps fortunate to have access to lots of tea in Southeast Asia, I certainly have some sort of benchmark in mind about quality levels. I've tried teahabitat's sheng puerhs are they are just... poorly sourced and poorly produced. Lacking in mouthfeel and processed in a way that is for immediate consumption. No wonder I've read on the website somewhere that its advisable to drink it as fresh as possible in maocha form and compression into cakes compromises the qi. I kid you not. There are plenty of red flags in that website. I couldnt get even 3 steeps out without discarding the tea soup in disgust. I'm writing here to caution against those who believe they are paying for "exclusive" teas of 300-500 year age (again, a gross lie), when I think what this vendor does is far more disdainful than the likes of vendors who sell "fake" teas for cheap price. Just think about it? Is it worse to be paying $50 for a cake of Bulang tea marketted as Lao Banzhang OR paying $300 for 1oz of "500 year old danzhu" where the quality is small tea material?

[LeoFox]

Is it worse to be paying $50 for a cake of Bulang tea marketted as Lao Banzhang OR paying $300 for 1oz of "500 year old danzhu" where the quality is small tea material?

2024 Spring 1st Pick Bing Dao Lao Zhai 800 Years Old Gushu Green Puerh Loose (1 oz)

Regular price
$398.00

https://teahabitat.com/collections/pu-e ... loose-1-oz

Simply the best! Spring first pick from 800+ years old ancient trees in Bing Dao old village, Lin Cang - the core of ancient tree forest. This 800 years old tree is less than 10 meters from the king of Bing Dao Puerh tree which was sold for 1.68 million RMB for 2023.

---

2024 Sai Mu Shu - Surpass Mother Tree(1 oz)
Regular price
$240.00

https://teahabitat.com/collections/sing ... r-tree1-oz

If you know our teas, you don't need a picture, if you want to get to know our teas, have faith and dive in.  Lol

Hahaha....

[GaoShan]

I wouldn't speak about non-tea related matters or speculate about the owner's personality. So I would just speak based off my experience drinking this vendor's teas. And yes, I have out of curiosity forked out quite a bit just to see why everyone's praising certain vendors. My thoughts are "Is this really the state of tea in the West?" As someone who is perhaps fortunate to have access to lots of tea in Southeast Asia, I certainly have some sort of benchmark in mind about quality levels. I've tried teahabitat's sheng puerhs are they are just... poorly sourced and poorly produced. Lacking in mouthfeel and processed in a way that is for immediate consumption. No wonder I've read on the website somewhere that its advisable to drink it as fresh as possible in maocha form and compression into cakes compromises the qi. I kid you not. There are plenty of red flags in that website. I couldnt get even 3 steeps out without discarding the tea soup in disgust. I'm writing here to caution against those who believe they are paying for "exclusive" teas of 300-500 year age (again, a gross lie), when I think what this vendor does is far more disdainful than the likes of vendors who sell "fake" teas for cheap price. Just think about it? Is it worse to be paying $50 for a cake of Bulang tea marketted as Lao Banzhang OR paying $300 for 1oz of "500 year old danzhu" where the quality is small tea material?

This vendor has been on my wish list for several years, though I've never had the willingness to spend that much on dancong. From this thread, it looks like I may have dodged an expensive bullet! If we wanted to start World War III on this forum, we could make a list of the vendors that are overhyped or overpriced. More productively, we could list the vendors accessible to Westerners that have a good quality-to-price ratio and offer exceptional tea.

[Baisao]

This vendor has been on my wish list for several years, though I've never had the willingness to spend that much on dancong.

Her very high end dancongs are great but they are overpriced for reasons that I can only speculate about. $1/g to $1.5/g would be more appropriate for her mid to high tier respectively.

If we wanted to start World War III on this forum...

I don't think Imen has that much power within the Chinese Communist Party.

More productively, we could list the vendors accessible to Westerners that have a good quality-to-price ratio and offer exceptional tea.

What has your experience been with The Steeping Room? They fit into that niche and yet they often have teas that really stand head and shoulders above the rest. I've only had one tea in 15 years that I did not like (a compressed white tea). On the other hand, there have been at least a couple that I've had a single 30 ml cup of and immediately bought 8oz of before making the second cup! Notably, there was a Jun Chiyabari Shiba (the year before their garden manager passed away) and a loose leaf Dian Hong where this happened.

They are exceptionally nice people, they don't have a bunch of phony lore, and their customer service is peerless.

[Sunyata]

Is it worse to be paying $50 for a cake of Bulang tea marketted as Lao Banzhang OR paying $300 for 1oz of "500 year old danzhu" where the quality is small tea material?

2024 Spring 1st Pick Bing Dao Lao Zhai 800 Years Old Gushu Green Puerh Loose (1 oz)

Regular price
$398.00

https://teahabitat.com/collections/pu-e ... loose-1-oz

Simply the best! Spring first pick from 800+ years old ancient trees in Bing Dao old village, Lin Cang - the core of ancient tree forest. This 800 years old tree is less than 10 meters from the king of Bing Dao Puerh tree which was sold for 1.68 million RMB for 2023.

---

2024 Sai Mu Shu - Surpass Mother Tree(1 oz)
Regular price
$240.00

https://teahabitat.com/collections/sing ... r-tree1-oz

If you know our teas, you don't need a picture, if you want to get to know our teas, have faith and dive in.  Lol

Hahaha....

https://teahabitat.com/collections/pu-e ... loose-1-oz

"Fresh 1st pick old tree Puerh is borned to be drunk now in loose form, aging or compressing results in loosing aroma and vitality. Excellent Puerh teas are meant to be great when fresh, that's how the local Yunnan people preferred their cup of Puerh. It's recharging, invigorating and nurturing! "

I also saw that theres Yiwu Tianmenshan and Baihuatan being sold at such prices. It's funny because from speaking with my tea supplier and those who travel to Yunnan to buy directly from the farmers, wholesale price of gaogan from these microlots (TMS, BHT) are $4-5/g (open market lists are published and shared in Wechat groups like spreadsheet), which are already very expensive so I've got some of the xiaoshu/small trees at $1/g just to understand the region. Even if what teahabitat gets hold of is matched quality, it should never be sold at $10/g+. Such prices are only for Bohetang 1st tier, or like premium Niu Lan Keng yancha but mostly yancha commands such high price.

The sheng puerh I was referring to that I've tried years ago was the Bing Dao set of 5 villages (2020) separately just to test for myself, since I can't find any legit teas there which are sold as such. All 5 of them were horrible with no cha qi, processed in a redden fashion, and worse of it all can't even beat factory productions of that area. They don't even last 3 steeps and if I were to blind taste them, I would think they are taidi cha level. My xiaoshu teas (albeit from other regions) stood out way more. By far, the most regrettable tea purchase in my life

[GaoShan]

What has your experience been with The Steeping Room? They fit into that niche and yet they often have teas that really stand head and shoulders above the rest. I've only had one tea in 15 years that I did not like (a compressed white tea). On the other hand, there have been at least a couple that I've had a single 30 ml cup of and immediately bought 8oz of before making the second cup! Notably, there was a Jun Chiyabari Shiba (the year before their garden manager passed away) and a loose leaf Dian Hong where this happened.

They are exceptionally nice people, they don't have a bunch of phony lore, and their customer service is peerless.

I don't have a lot of experience with them, having only ordered a few teas through a swap with an American tea drinker. I remember getting two versions of their Jun Chiyabari Ruby black tea that were very good, though my sample of their Yushan oolong from Taiwan was nice but not memorable. I also bought an unsmoked lapsang that I've yet to try. I recall that they either don't ship to Canada or their shipping charges are high. (Their website doesn't mention Canadian shipping, so more digging is required to answer this question.) I noticed they have a lot of black teas from the Indian Subcontinent and from Laos, Sri Lanka, and Vietnam. Would you say they're mainly a hongcha vendor?

Also, which dancong vendors would you recommend with teas in the $1 or $1.50/g price range?

[Ethan Kurland]

... If we wanted to start World War III on this forum, we could make a list of the vendors that are overhyped or overpriced. More productively, we could list the vendors accessible to Westerners that have a good quality-to-price ratio and offer exceptional tea.

Fighting breaks out even faster when one disparages a vendor who is not overhyped or overpriced or nasty most of the time but somehow did great disservice to a member & would not acknowledge nor attempt to rectify the problem. The complaining victim will surely get more heat than the offending vendor. If it takes years for some other member to be likewise disappointed by that vendor, it is doubtful anyone would think to say, "Sorry for unjustifiably finding you so obnoxious."
Lists of good & bad people doing business are somewhat useful, but I prefer members frankly posting about the teas they have bought to let us learn over time instead of relying on lists. Of course, this requires a lot of posting that could sound like whining, but it is necessary. The shortage of negative comments about specific teas and/or purchases that had problems helps us all waste less $. Disappointment should be reported even if a vendor hardly ever messes up.
What do members really like? Members greatly praise teas that they sample, then never seem to purchase a significant amount of those teas. (Praise for 20 grams or < 20 grams, does not truly inform me when it is not followed by notice of a follow-up purchase. Usually it is, "I might get another sample of that.") Some teas of vendors and/or the vendors themselves were regularly praised & then almost never mentioned for years. Why? We don't know whether quality and/or service went down or if members just did not want to keep posting about the same teas or vendors that they use over & over with pleasure.

[Baisao]

@GaoShan - I didn’t notice you were in Canada. That automatically limits options and is surely the reason you don’t have much interaction with TSR. But since you asked to discuss the Goldilocks Zone of tea vendors, I asked about one that meets or exceeds it. Hi-ho.

[GaoShan]

... If we wanted to start World War III on this forum, we could make a list of the vendors that are overhyped or overpriced. More productively, we could list the vendors accessible to Westerners that have a good quality-to-price ratio and offer exceptional tea.

Fighting breaks out even faster when one disparages a vendor who is not overhyped or overpriced or nasty most of the time but somehow did great disservice to a member & would not acknowledge nor attempt to rectify the problem. The complaining victim will surely get more heat than the offending vendor. If it takes years for some other member to be likewise disappointed by that vendor, it is doubtful anyone would think to say, "Sorry for unjustifiably finding you so obnoxious."
Lists of good & bad people doing business are somewhat useful, but I prefer members frankly posting about the teas they have bought to let us learn over time instead of relying on lists. Of course, this requires a lot of posting that could sound like whining, but it is necessary. The shortage of negative comments about specific teas and/or purchases that had problems helps us all waste less $. Disappointment should be reported even if a vendor hardly ever messes up.
What do members really like? Members greatly praise teas that they sample, then never seem to purchase a significant amount of those teas. (Praise for 20 grams or < 20 grams, does not truly inform me when it is not followed by notice of a follow-up purchase. Usually it is, "I might get another sample of that.") Some teas of vendors and/or the vendors themselves were regularly praised & then almost never mentioned for years. Why? We don't know whether quality and/or service went down or if members just did not want to keep posting about the same teas or vendors that they use over & over with pleasure.

I think people don't like posting negative reviews, particularly for vendors that don't get much press. Every vendor has teas that a customer doesn't like, either because they're objectively not great or because they aren't to the drinker's taste. I don't want to hurt a vendor's business with a bad review if most of their teas are good. However, you're right that customers might benefit from knowing this information, along with info on customer service, if they take it as one data point among many.

Frequent purchases could be a good yardstick for a vendor's quality, though again, that depends to some extent on the customer's experience and taste. Regarding samples, I've enjoyed teas that I couldn't get again because I often place large orders many months apart to save on shipping. By the time I drink the tea and am ready to make another purchase, it's usually out of stock. That's one of the downsides of buying tea online.

[GaoShan]

GaoShan - I didn’t notice you were in Canada. That automatically limits options and is surely the reason you don’t have much interaction with TSR. But since you asked to discuss the Goldilocks Zone of tea vendors, I asked about one that meets or exceeds it. Hi-ho.

Yes, living in Canada makes buying tea more of a hassle. Due to shipping subsidies, it's often cheaper to buy from vendors halfway across the world in Asia than from companies south of the border. (However, shipping from Asia is getting expensive, too.)

Thanks for recommending The Steeping Room. More vendors in the Goldilocks Zone would be appreciated!

[Balthazar]

Lists of good & bad people doing business are somewhat useful, but I prefer members frankly posting about the teas they have bought to let us learn over time instead of relying on lists.

I agree with this.

What do members really like? Members greatly praise teas that they sample, then never seem to purchase a significant amount of those teas. (Praise for 20 grams or < 20 grams, does not truly inform me when it is not followed by notice of a follow-up purchase. Usually it is, "I might get another sample of that.") Some teas of vendors and/or the vendors themselves were regularly praised & then almost never mentioned for years. Why?

I don't think this is the case, but I think samples are overrepresented in posts due to the fact that people rarely post about the same tea they've already shared their experience with through a number of earlier posts. A mix of "what more is there to say" and the higher novelty factor of what is new.

I recently had to take stock of my inventory, when I was encouraged (with a metaphorical gun to my head) to see if I could fit all my teas in one cupboard after a recent house move. And to my strange delight I actually could, well most of it (there's some sencha, hongcha and daily drinkers lying around in some other places, but this is probably 90% of what I have).

20240810_145906.jpg (228.22 KiB) Viewed 11897 times

Of which, save for a dozen or so 10-50 gram samples, nothing is less than a fee hundred grams per tea, in some cases as much of 2-3 kg per tea.

But the ones I cherish the most, I rarely write about anymore.