Yixing

[Dhammabum]

My only question is - how can the chop really be that similar to the teapot in the British Museum? It looks like the exact same stamp to me

It looks as if the chop is printed from the exact picture from BM. If you compare it with another photo of the same stamp from BM taken under a different angle then it looks less exact...

You can take this with a grain of salt, er um mica, if you like, but specks of shiny mica to my mind would indicate that the pot is relatively recently produced.

The lack of mica is one of the characteristics of 60s - mid 70s F1 hongni, but ordinary LQER zini can have plenty of mica specs.

Hey that’s fascinating. Seeing them side by side really does highlight the minute differences. My pots chop is a little scruffy in the bottom right corner whereas the BM pot’s chop is immaculate there.

Thank you

[Dhammabum]

The answer is yes! People do go great lengths to fake teapots, porcelains, and in general antiques. Hearing the fame of the artisan and looking at the inner tool marks and outer carvings, I would assume it's a copy. In the Chinese market, since not everyone can own a genuine piece from a master level artisan, some people are willing to settle with a high end copy. High end copies are by no mean cheap, some of those high end copies can be more expensive than the typical fully hand made and genuine yixing clay pots we see in the Western market.

Thanks! Super helpful and interesting.

Yes and one wonders instead of viewing them as ‘fakes’ perhaps they are more in homage to the originals and their creators?

My only question is - how can the chop really be that similar to the teapot in the British Museum? It looks like the exact same stamp to me

I think the word ‘replica’ is applicable for pots like this rather than fake. It is the word I use when discussing pots made to look antique but were crafted in a more recent era. While some were intentionally meant to deceive others were replicated for those who desire but cannot own the original pieces.

Regarding the seal, I see no reason for it to be a near exact copy of the one in the British Museum. And that assumes the one in the British Museum is authentic. There are many inauthentic ceramics in museums.

Thanks Baisao

I’ll use that terminology moving forward!

I guess we can never know the intention of the creators in these cases... either way, we can still appreciate the pot for it’s individual merits I suppose.

[.m.]

@Dhammabum

http://humi.cside.com/gallaly/juicebox_ ... index.html

https://www.britishmuseum.org/collectio ... 004-0625-1

[Bok]

Ditto to all the above… Mica is to be expected for clays before early factory. Lack or abundance of it are no proof either way. It all depends.

Those seals are pretty common standard seal chops for the period - but also very common on all sort of fakes(because the intention for most of these is to deceive, unlike earlier tribute pots imitating early Qing or the likes). I’d pay no mind to them, the workmanship is more important.

[Dhammabum]

Ditto to all the above… Mica is to be expected for clays before early factory. Lack or abundance of it are no proof either way. It all depends.

Those seals are pretty common standard seal chops for the period - but also very common on all sort of fakes(because the intention for most of these is to deceive, unlike earlier tribute pots imitating early Qing or the likes). I’d pay no mind to them, the workmanship is more important.

Thanks Bok.

And what would you say to the workmanship?

[Dhammabum]

Dhammabum

http://humi.cside.com/gallaly/juicebox_ ... index.html

https://www.britishmuseum.org/collectio ... 004-0625-1

Thank you!

The beige one is very similar, and the poem and calligraphy seems the same hand....

[steanze]

Hey guys!

Hope you are all having a lovely day. I’m in need of some help by way of identifying and authenticating this Yixing pot.

I’ve been practicing Gongfu-Cha for 7 or so years, I’ve built up a very small collection of Yixing ware including 4 or so teapots. By no means an expert on the topic but like to think I can identify a ‘good’ pot.

I recently acquired this particular pot. The clay looks high quality with a lot of texture and minerals. Nice little specks of black and shiny mica etc. The colour is nice and natural and to me, looks like genuine Yixing clay.

The inscribed poem and bamboo drawing are signed by famous poet, calligrapher and potter; Zi Zhi 子治. The stamp is a direct match for match with a pot in the British Museum, please see below:

https://www.britishmuseum.org/collectio ... ranks-2450

Yang Youlan is of course one of the foremost famed masters of the Mid Qing Dynasty. Obviously I’d usually write the pot off as a fake and be done with it, but the unusually high quality clay and the accuracy of the stamp has me confused.

Would people really go to such lengths to fake a teapot?

I’ve included some photos. As you can see - the craftsmanship does seem a bit odd. The pot is slightly misshapen and the lid is a little messy. The calligraphy also seems a little simple.

Please help me figure out what’s going on with this pot and if it’s real or fake. Many thanks to you all!

In my view this is a late Qing to early ROC teapot. The clay is nice. The 友兰 seal stands for 邵友兰 (http://www.puer10000.com/chaju/75523.html): Shao Youlan. Not sure why British Museum says "Yang Youlan", I think that is incorrect. In my view this piece is not an authentic piece by Shao Youlan, but it is an old reproduction.

[Dhammabum]

Hey guys!

Hope you are all having a lovely day. I’m in need of some help by way of identifying and authenticating this Yixing pot.

I’ve been practicing Gongfu-Cha for 7 or so years, I’ve built up a very small collection of Yixing ware including 4 or so teapots. By no means an expert on the topic but like to think I can identify a ‘good’ pot.

I recently acquired this particular pot. The clay looks high quality with a lot of texture and minerals. Nice little specks of black and shiny mica etc. The colour is nice and natural and to me, looks like genuine Yixing clay.

The inscribed poem and bamboo drawing are signed by famous poet, calligrapher and potter; Zi Zhi 子治. The stamp is a direct match for match with a pot in the British Museum, please see below:

https://www.britishmuseum.org/collectio ... ranks-2450

Yang Youlan is of course one of the foremost famed masters of the Mid Qing Dynasty. Obviously I’d usually write the pot off as a fake and be done with it, but the unusually high quality clay and the accuracy of the stamp has me confused.

Would people really go to such lengths to fake a teapot?

I’ve included some photos. As you can see - the craftsmanship does seem a bit odd. The pot is slightly misshapen and the lid is a little messy. The calligraphy also seems a little simple.

Please help me figure out what’s going on with this pot and if it’s real or fake. Many thanks to you all!

In my view this is a late Qing to early ROC teapot. The clay is nice. The 友兰 seal stands for 邵友兰 (http://www.puer10000.com/chaju/75523.html): Shao Youlan. Not sure why British Museum says "Yang Youlan", I think that is incorrect. In my view this piece is not an authentic piece by Shao Youlan, but it is an old reproduction.

Thank you

That seems to be the consensus on here in terms of age and being a reproduction.

Can I ask you, in your opinion, what rules it out of being an original piece by Youlan? The craftsmanship? And also, what gives you the feeling it’s that old and not made more recently?

A million thank yous!

[steanze]

Thank you

That seems to be the consensus on here in terms of age and being a reproduction.

Can I ask you, in your opinion, what rules it out of being an original piece by Youlan? The craftsmanship? And also, what gives you the feeling it’s that old and not made more recently?

A million thank yous!

Yes, craftsmanship is key. Several details of the construction and style point to LQER.

[Dhammabum]

Just thought I’d share my other two pots. Both Shui Ping. One in Hongni and the smaller cute one in Zini. Both bought in Taiwan for not very much money. Both seem like good clay and make nice tea. I drink WAY too much Shou and so usually end up using both of these for that and other darker teas like Liu Bao.

Not sure of age or what/if a factory etc. Help appreciated

[steanze]

Just thought I’d share my other two pots. Both Shui Ping. One in Hongni and the smaller cute one in Zini. Both bought in Taiwan for not very much money. Both seem like good clay and make nice tea. I drink WAY too much Shou and so usually end up using both of these for that and other darker teas like Liu Bao.

Not sure of age or what/if a factory etc. Help appreciated

In my opinion these are modern replicas. Not Factory 1.

[Dhammabum]

Just thought I’d share my other two pots. Both Shui Ping. One in Hongni and the smaller cute one in Zini. Both bought in Taiwan for not very much money. Both seem like good clay and make nice tea. I drink WAY too much Shou and so usually end up using both of these for that and other darker teas like Liu Bao.

Not sure of age or what/if a factory etc. Help appreciated

In my opinion these are modern replicas. Not Factory 1.

Thanks Steanze

How does the clay and craftsmanship look in general?

[Bok]

+1 typical replicas found in the 1000s all over Taiwan. Can’t be sure what’s in the clay without testing (which won’t be worth it).

[steanze]

Thanks Steanze

How does the clay and craftsmanship look in general?

They are standard for this type of pot. The clay is not nearly as good as the 70s F1 versions, but it might work reasonably well for tea anyway. The craftsmanship seems to be good enough to make tea without making a mess, but these are mass-produced pots, so one can't expect the craftsmanship to be refined.

[LeoFox]

Learned something interesting. Outside of yixing in neighboring Zhejiang, there is an area called chang xing (長興) that also has purple clay. And it has been a practice for some vendors to sell Chang xing purple clay as yixing clay. Apparently it is also blended into yixing zini. Such blending with clay outside of yixing (from many other regions) has been practiced for a long time apparently. It is possible that many modern zini has mixed in high proportion of non yixing clay. Chang xing is quite close to yixing so may be from the same vein of ore. Other places are farther away

As a follow up - I received cup made of chang xing clay. Attached are pics for reference