I tend to revise my posts about a tea over time as I finish the bag. There are a lot of teas, especially vacuum sealed ones, that change dramatically after a day or 2 - for better or for worse.
This is part of the danger with posting about samples- the tiny bit of tea vacuum sealed - once opened is in full make up and instagram filter. Amazing session right? You buy the bag and a few days in, the tea has become mediocre.
Worse If the samples have been sprayed with pleasing volatiles. Who can really tell?
And then you have teas that are great, turn mediocre- then a few months later become amazing in a different way. Seems to happen with some roasted oolong.
Are we allowed to talk vendors?
I won't need to try. Ys is absolutely horrible, and Scott's business practices are despicable. I don't believe a thing he writes or says about his teas. I would rather buy an overpriced cocktail at a Trump hotel than get anything associated with Scott at this point. So more overlord for you and his fanatics on communitea I guess which is good news since he seems to use this algorithm that increases the price as the tea decreases in stock. Cheers
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Ethan Kurland
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Perhaps there is split in my brain or personality. I speak of how I might have qualms about who writes, e.g., tea samplers or hoarders, then I say all the writing is helpful especially from long-term members.
Certainly some of my words are not useful, except for promoting humility & humor.Cheers
Last edited by Ethan Kurland on Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ethan Kurland
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I did go in a few years back, hoping to try some earlier vintage Trump winery sparklings (i actually like the stuff). They claimed they had early 2000s vintage bottles, which would predate Trump taking over the winery. I got a glass and demanded to see the bottle. The waiter sheepishly showed me a 2015 bottleEthan Kurland wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:53 pmThat's funny. I suppose buying a cocktail at a Trump hotel could be your punishment for losing a game or..... cheers
The extraordinary claim that could use some justification is actually "Teas from TWS are probably the most organic well processed teas available to the west." It doesn't really make sense to ask people who are skeptical to demonstrate their claim with counterexamples. The burden of proof should be on the one making such a claim. But it's a cool claim, do you wish to elaborate? On what sources is it based (assuming you do not personally vouch for it, as in having a lab and access to a representative sample of TW tea exports to the West; or having inspected a large number of farms, etc.)?
When you say the 'most organic' available to the West, do you mean that organic products from TW reaching the West are usually 'less organic' and that the 'most organic' are reserved for local consumption? This would surprise me, as I had the impression that virtually no one in Taiwan cared about the word 'organic' on their tea. Also, what criteria do you use to quantify organicness?
In general, I agree that context matters (doesn't it always?). Bashing a vendor based on a few samples, or a farmer based on some experimental tea of theirs would obviously be unwarranted. When being overly critical of a tea but not the vendor as a whole, it's useful to be explicit about it. But sometimes, a single thing (such as the one Ethan described above) can be enough to warn others. Keeping silent about issues means giving room for the vendor to improve... at the expense of customers. Whether the vendor deserves this is up to everyone to decide before posting. I try to avoid as much vendor-improving at my expense as possible 
, so I hope the balance of posts I read here and elsewhere is more towards the critical (within reason & proper considerations). I guess this shows my bias due to being a clueless customer for most types of tea, exactly the kind that vendors would depend on most to improve.
, so I hope the balance of posts I read here and elsewhere is more towards the critical (within reason & proper considerations). I guess this shows my bias due to being a clueless customer for most types of tea, exactly the kind that vendors would depend on most to improve.
@teatray, I agree with your above post but want to perhaps add some nuance to this specific statement.
There are people all over the world who care about consuming clean foods and beverages.
Taiwanese tea drinkers are diverse but in my experience they may not be as interested in an organic label, because it’s so abused, but they will be interested in a farmer/family who they know and whose land they have visited for themselves. That’s perhaps what you mean.
Our new friend’s claim that “teas from TWS are probably the most organic well processed teas available to the West” is well meaning but incorrect. I’ve been able to get delicious, expertly processed, wild grown oolongs for years while sitting at my tea table in Texas. It doesn’t get more organic than wild/feral tea. And this trend in Taiwan has been growing.
The claim may be partially true if you’re looking to buy in dozens of kg, but wild and “organic” Taiwanese teas have been available to enthusiasts like myself for years now, albeit, usually, through trusted relationships, in modest quantities that are inline with how much is produced.
purely talking about tea not business practices i hope you understand the difference between a tea made by scott and a tea made by someone that actually knows teaI won't need to try. Ys is absolutely horrible, and Scott's business practices are despicable. I don't believe a thing he writes or says about his teas. I would rather buy an overpriced cocktail at a Trump hotel than get anything associated with Scott at this point. So more overlord for you and his fanatics on communitea I guess which is good news since he seems to use this algorithm that increases the price as the tea decreases in stock. Cheers
talking about the quality of the tea only... to understand that criticism i would still like to know what you think that vendor/the processing needs improvement of.
and im the last person that is against trashing a vendor that's mostly shit (like YS ).
not even sure why everone is so angry here. i simply don't think that tws is guilty by association and i don't think the quality of tws teas matches those of ys teas and i simply think tws make some pretty good tea. idc if you all can get tea that you perceive as "more or less organic" than tws. i think they are pretty careful in the selection of the material and their processing and produce some very interesting as well as high quality oolong. and i don't think that is as controversial as yall make it to be
and im really really happy to trash western faced vendors. 95% of which are shit and garbage (which is why i think my claim does not need much justification since most taiwanese oolong in the west is just horribly bad)
Interesting, thanks for clarifying & correcting that superficial statement.Baisao wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:56 pmTaiwanese tea drinkers are diverse but in my experience they may not be as interested in an organic label, because it’s so abused, but they will be interested in a farmer/family who they know and whose land they have visited for themselves. That’s perhaps what you mean.
[...] I’ve been able to get delicious, expertly processed, wild grown oolongs for years while sitting at my tea table in Texas. It doesn’t get more organic than wild/feral tea. And this trend in Taiwan has been growing.
I have some vague memories of maybe similar 'trusted sourcing' relationships. It was desirable to have a relative/friend a friend, etc. who can be trusted to grow produce properly, in contrast to the lower quality generally available in my country during communist times. (I think a big consideration then was not to use pesticides that were known to be harmful in the West but not acknowledged as such in communist regimes fulfilling ambitious 5-year plans.)
Do you happen to know if a non-trivial share of Taiwanese drinkers are specifically concerned whether non-organic fertilizer was used in farm-grown tea?
I know of a handful but that might still be considered a trivial number of people. I expect it to grow in the next decade though.teatray wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:54 pmDo you happen to know if a non-trivial share of Taiwanese drinkers are specifically concerned whether non-organic fertilizer was used in farm-grown tea?
Tea culture there is diverse. Some care about non-organic fertilizer (actually a very important consideration) while others are mostly concerned with pesticides. Those that are concerned about non-organic fertilizers are always concerned about pesticides. Others are concerned with cha qi only and have special qigong methods of preparing tea. Some care about maximizing aroma, some only care about consuming tea socially, still others care mostly about how their table looks. Taiwanese tea culture is quiet diverse!