What Oolong Are You Drinking

[Andrew S]

Andrew S & Bok. While I was travelling in Fujian (in 2013 - I've not been to China since, just Taiwan ) I learned that the practice of "packing the pot" is known as "farmer tea" - 農茶. Andrew S, I am curious that you only get 3 steeps from your teas. I typically get about 6 - and I prefer my tea fairly highly extracted. Are you finding that the flavor falls off?

I think that I recall you mentioning that 'farmer tea' concept around here a while ago; I seem to recall that the Chaozhou method was designed, at least at some point in history, to maximise what could be gotten out of relatively low-quality roasted leaves, but perhaps those more knowledgeable than I am about the history of this method can explain the association with farmers.

As to steeps, perhaps it's more accurate to say that I aim for three very concentrated ones when using this method, and I usually push it to around six, but the ones after the first three are very different in character, and are not what I am aiming for or what I care about when using this method.

The first three are concentrated in terms of flavour and mouthfeel, and (hopefully) balanced between all the flavours and textures that make up the tea, whereas the latter ones run out of flavour and mouthfeel, and lack that balance between all the elements that I try to get right in the first three.

But when I brew yancha normally, I go well past nine infusions; I'll happily go for fifteen infusions for a good yancha.

So brewing 10g in my pot for half a minute to a minute with some crushed leaves yields three strong but balanced infusions, and then some weaker and less interesting ones, whereas brewing 8g in my pot for many shorter infusions yields a gradual development (and then decline) of the tea's characteristics.

Andrew

[Tillerman]

@Andrew S. Thank you for your reply. It was thorough and, I must say, compelling. I have "packed the pot" on occasion but I've never used crushed leaves. D.

[Tillerman]

@Andrew S p.s. how large is your pot and how hot is your water?

[Andrew S]

Andrew S p.s. how large is your pot and how hot is your water?

The pot that I've been using to practice this strong method is around 80mL, and my water is always boiling.

So for yancha normally, a 1g per 10mL ratio with no crushed leaves and shorter infusions, but a 1.25g per 10mL ratio when aiming for this strong method.

Andrew

[LeoFox]

All this talk about heavy brewing finally made me try it with this tea
viewtopic.php?p=38891#p38891
Used 5.7g in my 55-60 ml pot. Took me so long to fit it in that the pot was almost cooled down. Then after I poured water in, took me so long to close the lid with all those leaves sticking out, it was already 20s in when I got it! Brewed starting at 30s and then 50s, 1min20s, 2min 30s etc.



Very surprised to find the brew less harsh than when using 7-8g/ 100 mL. The tea is smooth and rich. The flavors were a bit more muddled compared to the lighter brew, but became more "clear" in the very long finish. This intense flavor experience is definitely unique..maybe like how a 55c 3 min infusion with 1g/10 mL gyokuro is unique

I also tried doing a 8.5 g/ 85 mL session last night with a da hong pao that was more strongly roasted- that one was more rich and was great brewed in this espresso manner.

Not yet convinced this is the way to go yet. Seems to work better for the ones with heavier roast

[Andrew S]

@LeoFox: it's interesting to read your experiments, and I agree that more heavily-roasted teas seem to be easier (and perhaps more enjoyable) when brewed this way. However, as Bok mentioned a little while above, this is a traditional way to brew dancong, so I'll leave it to others to explain their experiences with brewing lighter-roasted teas in this style.

I get more precise flavours and more obvious development of flavours (and aroma, and mouthfeel, etc) from infusion to infusion when brewing rather quickly in my 'normal' yancha brewing style, whereas even more leaves and much longer brews can create dense, rich, and perhaps less 'clear', but nevertheless balanced and even aromatic, infusions.

I think I mentioned a while ago that there was a certain yancha that I tried from EoT which had an assertive roast, which I tried to control with quick infusions (and failed to do so), but which took really well to longer infusions for a more concentrated brew; the roast finally balanced really well with the flavour, aroma and mouthfeel.

It's nice to have multiple methods of brewing these teas (even big pot yancha brewing, as I understand OCTO to practice).

It's also fun to make just a few very strong infusions in the morning, when you just don't have time for a longer session... Why should espresso drinkers have all the fun?

Andrew

[LeoFox]

I have a suspicion than when brewing heavy like this, all the flavors both good and bad converge into a singular mass of flavors - so that the flaws are not only hidden in the mass, but end up contributing to the overall shape in potentially positive ways.

Also, with all the compressed leaves in a tiny volume, the extraction must be less efficient.

[Andrew S]

I have a suspicion than when brewing heavy like this, all the flavors both good and bad converge into a singular mass of flavors - so that the flaws are not only hidden in the mass, but end up contributing to the overall shape in potentially positive ways.

I agree that the flavours tend to coalesce, and the stronger method seems to me to be more about using brewing skill and experience to get a good result from the tea (which, of course, is not to say that other methods can't give equally good but different results), whereas shorter infusions seems to involve less skill and perhaps let the tea speak more (and perhaps test it more, in a way). Maybe there is truth in the idea that the Chaozhou gongfu method replaces quality of leaves with skill in brewing (at least to some degree).

I still have much to learn about all this, though. I've only been trying the same kilo of tea in the same pot and with the same doses to try to learn enough of the overall style of brewing by trial and error that I can experiment more with other teas and with variations to the style.

Something that comes to mind is the distinction between 'tasting' something and 'drinking' it. Someone might swirl a wine around in a glass repeatedly, stick their face into the glass to sniff away for minutes, draw air into their mouth as they sip it, swirl it in their mouth for longer than might be socially acceptable, but I think that that is all about tasting or testing the wine, and that it is a very different experience simply to drink the thing for enjoyment without putting it to a test.

In the tea context, I'm not quite sure which style is the test, and which is just enjoyment, but I think that it will vary from tea to tea, and from style to style. Brewing a yancha strong to make a few concentrated but balanced brews might be equivalent to brewing a Darjeeling in the Western style to avoid the shortfalls that might emerge from brewing it in multiple short infusions. Some styles of tea, and some individual teas, might just be better-suited to certain methods, whereas other methods might 'test' them unfairly, or at least might not maximise the enjoyment that we can get from the tea.

Just some rambling thoughts. I look forward to hearing from others.

Andrew

[LeoFox]

I have this suspicion that I can get a stronger, more robust infusion with a bigger pot and a little less leaf but letting it go for longer. These tiny pots lose heat fast - and again I feel the extraction is less efficient when all the leaves are smooshed together like this. Will experiment.

Partly motivated by the annoyance of over stuffing the pot. Takes a lot of time

---

Okay - tried it here:

8.2g of same tea in 105-110 ml pot.
45s, 1min20s, 2min10s, 3min30s, 5min, 20min



Defintiely easier to slip the leaves in but still quite packed. The infusions were darker and had a thicker, creamier mouthfeel than the 1g/10mL with the hongni. The flavors were less choppy, more clear, but in a less persistent way; it was also more rich and more expansive. The aftertaste was much less pronounced. The astringency is a bit sharper in the throat. I'd adjust the brewing maybe to 1 min, 1 min 45, 3 min etc to concentrate the infusions more - and maybe go up closer to 9g in the future.

[Andrew S]

@LeoFox: as always, it's interesting to read your experiments. You have a methodical approach to tea, but one which doesn't get in the way of enjoying the experience.

In case it is of any help, I put the leaves into a wide shallow cup while the water is boiling, then separate out the whole leaves from the broken ones into separate cups. A lot of whole leaves go in first, then I push them around a bit towards the edges, then the small and broken leaves go into the middle (including crushing them up a bit more, if you're into that kind of thing), then more whole leaves on top, in an attempt to trap the smaller ones.

Of course, the more roasted teas tend to have smaller and more broken leaves than the less roasted styles, so they're naturally easier to fit in.

I'll have to try your method though. It's been a while since I brewed yancha with fewer leaves than my usual 1:10 ratio.

Andrew

[LeoFox]

Going opposite way. 6g in 85 ml- flash infusions with same tea. Works pretty well too. Very relaxing and smooth. - actually may be the way to go for this medium-light processed jin mu dan

[Sunyata]

I am currently having a side-by-side tasting of 4 Ba Xian Dancong from 4 of the more beloved and renowned tea vendors - Wuyi origin, Teahong, Teahabitat and Hojo.

I think Hojo is the clear winner. I have other teahabitat's dancongs, they are somewhat more mellow, rounded but less sweet than hojo. Akira Hojo's philosophy of old tree and long aftertaste resonates with me. His teas are very distinct in taste and have sufficient depth which can be felt after swallowing the tea.

[oolongfan]

Did several teas from Ethan Kurland’s current lineup: Perfect, Fushoushan, and Lishan.

I have already shared my impression of the first two but this time – for the second session – I decided to use my early ‘70’s Hong Ni Shui Ping (60ml) from Bok. This is the first time brewing anything but sheng in this new (to me) teapot.

Perfect - This was sweeter and the flavors more pronounced with more nuttiness and a honey orchid note that had previously only been a faint suggestion. This is not to say it is as pronounced as say the Lishan, but enough to make the Perfect feel more complex and contrasting against the tea’s thick fat texture. The sweetness is was much apparent unlike prior session when I had pegged this as a primarily savory tea. I had previously enjoyed the Perfect but in this pot, the Perfect was elevated to the Fufoushan’s level while still being quite distinct from the latter. In terms of pure pleasure I would be hard pressed to pick a favorite between the two now.

Fushoushan – By the time I brewed this in Bok’s Hong Ni, I was literally finishing my tea session, so my palate was a bit addled and I added a tad too many leaves now I will note what stood out. Gardenia notes (but not really floral) jumped out along with much strong sweet pea blossom notes. Like the Perfect, sweetness was amplified. Overall the tea’s flavor profile seemed much more pronounced in this teapot. My only regret was that I waited until the end of my tea day to try this in Bok’s pot. The flavors seemed even more developed along with new ones not previously noted but again I am hesitant to share until I re-taste with a fresh palate.

In short both of these teas seem to have found their preferred teapot.

Lishan – Brewed this in my Mandarin Tea Room 40 ml Hong Ni shui ping because I was down to the last few leaves and tea dust but nevertheless managed a beautiful session double brewing. I love the orchid honey headiness that never becomes overly heavy but rather remains light and nimble. I love drinking this especially in the company of the two aforementioned teas for this shares some similarities but also stands out for its honey orchid notes and more overt sweetness. I have to re order this ASAP for already I am missing it despite my limited tea schedule.

I originally intended to do some puerh but every time I finished a session I found my thoughts turning to yet doing another session of these three teas. I ended up doing double sessions of the Perfect and Fushoushan and was only prevented from doing a second of the Lishan by not having any more on hand to brew.

[Toha0652]

ahh drinking a taiwansourcing tea today. winter 2020 overlord. while i don't like winter oolongs as much - this is still a great one. very different to the heavy roast version though. this medium roasted version is sold out now.

[Tillerman]

@Toha0652, sadly, with climate change, the differences between the winter and spring harvest are becoming much less noticeable.