What is popular, is often wrong – see populists
Pairing yixing pots with teas
Just reviving this thread because I'm a bit puzzled at the pairing pourspeed>10s-Hongni-Thick-Dry aged sheng. What puzzles me is the pour speed ? I'd have expected some kind of faster pour for aged sheng and leave long time pour to some rolled oolong.
Question your assumptions. Lots of ways to make up for slower pour speed. Not that it matters terribly much anyways. Anything from 6-10sec is pretty fast.
Honestly for most teas those minute second details do not matter at all, never understood the fixation of many Western tea drinkers on this part... the better the tea the less pour speed is an issue, no matter the kind of tea. If it’s not a 20sec pour it’s alright...
No assumption or fixation here. If I take EoT 2001 Mengsa Old Tree that is an easy reach and drink for us, westerners, and a late F1 90s 85ml hongni quite high fired (also an easy reach in this part of the world) and if it's a 5-10s max pour on the first serves it comes flavored and with controlled bitterness, longer than that bitterness starts covering it all. Granted that higher grade tea (no insult to David) and pot might lessen the issue, but I am just wondering. I'd be steeping a TGY for a good 45s to 1mn if not more, and a sheng about 5-10s for first serves so I am just trying to get that specific point in the chart.
Seems your sensitivity to bitterness might be similar to mine. Maybe look for a more porous zini pot. Without mine, all sheng goes into the garbage due to bitterness.olivierd wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:34 amNo assumption or fixation here. If I take EoT 2001 Mengsa Old Tree that is an easy reach and drink for us, westerners, and a late F1 90s 85ml hongni quite high fired (also an easy reach in this part of the world) and if it's a 5-10s max pour on the first serves it comes flavored and with controlled bitterness, longer than that bitterness starts covering it all. Granted that higher grade tea (no insult to David) and pot might lessen the issue, but I am just wondering. I'd be steeping a TGY for a good 45s to 1mn if not more, and a sheng about 5-10s for first serves so I am just trying to get that specific point in the chart.
I have not had that tea, but you might want to reduce the leaf/water ratio. 2001 sheng should not be that bitter...olivierd wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:34 amNo assumption or fixation here. If I take EoT 2001 Mengsa Old Tree that is an easy reach and drink for us, westerners, and a late F1 90s 85ml hongni quite high fired (also an easy reach in this part of the world) and if it's a 5-10s max pour on the first serves it comes flavored and with controlled bitterness, longer than that bitterness starts covering it all. Granted that higher grade tea (no insult to David) and pot might lessen the issue, but I am just wondering. I'd be steeping a TGY for a good 45s to 1mn if not more, and a sheng about 5-10s for first serves so I am just trying to get that specific point in the chart.
I'm quite sensitive to bitterness, but my own tastes and views are of little importance. I was just wondering the rational of the hongni-long pour-thickness for aged sheng. I would brew any sheng with fast pour pots, but I think I see what you mean : aged sheng don't have a pronounced bitter profile and should stand the longer pour. Great chart anyway, thanks for posting.
You are welcome! Yes the idea is that aged sheng should be less bitter than young sheng, and it is not usually brewed at extremely high ratios like yancha, so it does not require fast pouring pot as much as some other teas. But there is nothing wrong with using a fast pouring pot for aged sheng anyway.olivierd wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:20 amI'm quite sensitive to bitterness, but my own tastes and views are of little importance. I was just wondering the rational of the hongni-long pour-thickness for aged sheng. I would brew any sheng with fast pour pots, but I think I see what you mean : aged sheng don't have a pronounced bitter profile and should stand the longer pour. Great chart anyway, thanks for posting.
As @LeoFox suggested, perhaps you would prefer the results in a zini pot.
The chart is a guideline to help a bit people who start approaching the world of Yixing, but it is not a set of fixed rules, you can experiment and see what you like
The 2001 Mengsa Old Tree was stored in Kunming for most of its life, so that probably plays a role. I too find that it's easy to over-steep it compared to teas of a similar vintage that has undergone different storage (and have tried steeping it both with hongni, zini and dcq).olivierd wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:34 amIf I take EoT 2001 Mengsa Old Tree that is an easy reach and drink for us, westerners, and a late F1 90s 85ml hongni quite high fired (also an easy reach in this part of the world) and if it's a 5-10s max pour on the first serves it comes flavored and with controlled bitterness, longer than that bitterness starts covering it all. Granted that higher grade tea (no insult to David) and pot might lessen the issue, but I am just wondering.
For what it might be worth, I currently use three pots for aged pu er. The ones with a slow pour get a little bit less leaf in proportion to their size than the one with a quick pour, and I might do things such as starting to pour the tea earlier than with the quick one, but each of those pots works well for me. One pot is a new acquisition, but the other two I've played with for around a decade, and I've gotten to know them pretty well. Each of those pots accentuates different aspects of any given tea.
I've found that you can adapt to slower-pouring pots and quicker-pouring pots by adjusting how much leaf you use, how quickly you pour, whether you go harder on the early infusions or go harder on the later ones, etc. I'm not quite sure why some people say that quick pots are necessarily the best.
The results between a slow-pouring pot and a quick-pouring pot won't be the same even if you adapt your methods to them, but I don't think that that's the issue, and, to me, the differences are actually part of the fun. I think that it is better to find a pot whose clay works well for a tea that you like, and then to find a way to get that pot to make the best brew that it can for you.
There often seems to be a desire to seek out the best possible pot in terms of clay, pour speed, or some other factor, whereas it seems to me that each pot reveals a different story with any given tea, and all we have to do is do our best to let that pot work well for us. If we focus on trying to find the 'optimal clay' or the 'optimal teapot', then I thing that we get distracted from making our tea.
Andrew
I've found that you can adapt to slower-pouring pots and quicker-pouring pots by adjusting how much leaf you use, how quickly you pour, whether you go harder on the early infusions or go harder on the later ones, etc. I'm not quite sure why some people say that quick pots are necessarily the best.
The results between a slow-pouring pot and a quick-pouring pot won't be the same even if you adapt your methods to them, but I don't think that that's the issue, and, to me, the differences are actually part of the fun. I think that it is better to find a pot whose clay works well for a tea that you like, and then to find a way to get that pot to make the best brew that it can for you.
There often seems to be a desire to seek out the best possible pot in terms of clay, pour speed, or some other factor, whereas it seems to me that each pot reveals a different story with any given tea, and all we have to do is do our best to let that pot work well for us. If we focus on trying to find the 'optimal clay' or the 'optimal teapot', then I thing that we get distracted from making our tea.
Andrew
The rather small 85ml cools down quickly, and two consecutive brews in the same pitcher average the liquor, that helps a bit while retaining the clean dry taste. I won't go for Zini with that tea I find it makes it somehow flat.Balthazar wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:39 amThe 2001 Mengsa Old Tree was stored in Kunming for most of its life, so that probably plays a role. I too find that it's easy to over-steep it compared to teas of a similar vintage that has undergone different storage (and have tried steeping it both with hongni, zini and dcq).olivierd wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:34 amIf I take EoT 2001 Mengsa Old Tree that is an easy reach and drink for us, westerners, and a late F1 90s 85ml hongni quite high fired (also an easy reach in this part of the world) and if it's a 5-10s max pour on the first serves it comes flavored and with controlled bitterness, longer than that bitterness starts covering it all. Granted that higher grade tea (no insult to David) and pot might lessen the issue, but I am just wondering.
You are all very right. Yet, the teapot at some point is a ustensil (with all due respect), so one might just wish not to bother with it xhen brewing tea. And a generous fast pour flow is a joy to watch !Andrew S wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:13 amFor what it might be worth, I currently use three pots for aged pu er. The ones with a slow pour get a little bit less leaf in proportion to their size than the one with a quick pour, and I might do things such as starting to pour the tea earlier than with the quick one, but each of those pots works well for me. One pot is a new acquisition, but the other two I've played with for around a decade, and I've gotten to know them pretty well. Each of those pots accentuates different aspects of any given tea.
I've found that you can adapt to slower-pouring pots and quicker-pouring pots by adjusting how much leaf you use, how quickly you pour, whether you go harder on the early infusions or go harder on the later ones, etc. I'm not quite sure why some people say that quick pots are necessarily the best.
The results between a slow-pouring pot and a quick-pouring pot won't be the same even if you adapt your methods to them, but I don't think that that's the issue, and, to me, the differences are actually part of the fun. I think that it is better to find a pot whose clay works well for a tea that you like, and then to find a way to get that pot to make the best brew that it can for you.
There often seems to be a desire to seek out the best possible pot in terms of clay, pour speed, or some other factor, whereas it seems to me that each pot reveals a different story with any given tea, and all we have to do is do our best to let that pot work well for us. If we focus on trying to find the 'optimal clay' or the 'optimal teapot', then I thing that we get distracted from making our tea.
Andrew
@olivierd.... yes, please revisit your assumptions.... pour rate is one of the most insignificant aspects in brewing tea. Not because it's not important... but it's a variable that's easily "modified" or resolved. Personally, I would pay more attention to tea ratio and understanding your brewing techniques. These areas would yield better satisfactory results than banging your head against the wall trying to figure out how fast the pot pours.... the size of the tea leave impacts that rate very significantly!....Bok wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:13 amQuestion your assumptions. Lots of ways to make up for slower pour speed. Not that it matters terribly much anyways. Anything from 6-10sec is pretty fast.
Honestly for most teas those minute second details do not matter at all, never understood the fixation of many Western tea drinkers on this part... the better the tea the less pour speed is an issue, no matter the kind of tea. If it’s not a 20sec pour it’s alright...
my tiny 2cent's worth....
cheers!