Adagio overtakes Steepster ?

[faj]

They essentially drove the car off the bridge ... several times ... because they could. In the process they essentially killed TC.

In many cases, it is hard to tell whether self-defeating mistakes such as this one are made. Malice? Incompetence? Playing with things you do not understand? Seeing an opportunity for commercial gain while downplaying the risks? It can be a strategy directed from the top, and it can be the last hired guy being a jerk or wanting to save a few GB of space.

I was never a member of TC, so I did not go through that painful process like you did. I guess the creation of this forum, controlled by people who are invested enough in the adventure to avoid doing something massively destructive like that, is a shared benefit we all get to enjoy, so while I cannot repair what was done, let me thank you for your time and involvement.

[Pants404]

I do not doubt that those who weren't around for the downfall of TC and merge to TF all of this looks so pretty.
I am not commenting on anything outside of saying that their denial is a sign of things to come. I hate that another great resource is going to potentially fall apart, seeing that tea culture is barely starting to grow in Australia.

I truly hope they prove us wrong, but if we continue to invest in steepster we could lose a lot. Alternately if we abandon it we will be the ones to bring it down.

[Victoria]

This topic really is ‘current news’ (old news too) so moved it here. I am glad we are having an open conversation about what propelled the creation of TeaForum and it’s founding history. My comments are in the Future of Steepster thread, exhausting to revisit, but good to share with members as well.

[mbanu]

Also deafening silence in regards to recent fake accounts for promotion and screenshots taken of later disappeared heated discussions...

He knew exactly what happened and has no reply which would not make him look worse than it already is.

I think Adagio is late to that game, which makes them more obvious. If you go somewhere like /r/tea on Reddit, when someone just "happens" to post a photo of a brand's teas as an enthusiastic new tea drinker and it also just happens to get an unusual amount of upvotes, there is some expectation that maybe this is a form of guerilla marketing, or at least was originally until it got enough momentum to carry on its own as a trend. I think that TeaChat might have been when this style of marketing first started to take off, but it was not Adagio that was benefiting. My guess is that they eventually realized this and began removing tea reviews even by genuine posters and trying to do their own fake posts.

I think when it started, Adagio might have been trying to do what Stash Tea was doing in the late 90s, where by becoming a general tea resource it raised their own reputation: https://web.archive.org/web/19981212033 ... shtea.com/ But back then I don't think vendors pretending to be drinkers to raise the profile of hard-to-sell teas was really a problem, although I could be wrong.

Part of it I think was that the internet was less international when it came to selling things, people bought from vendors located in their own countries, which meant that if a vendor misrepresented itself it could very well end up in court. When the sale crosses international borders, it becomes much more complicated and unlikely to resolve itself in that way, so "But we might get sued" is not necessarily the concern now that it was at that time when it comes to shady forms of marketing.

[Greywacke]

Hey. I mostly lurked and watched this thread, planning to crosspost Chip's statement (although I optimistically decided to wait things out, and to postpone being banned on the spot myself). Adagio's ended up putting up a poll about doing exactly what they assured Steepster users they wouldn't do--purge the database.

I'm hoping a few extra voices of reason (although I understand there isn't a huge mix between Steepster regulars and TeaForum regulars) will show them how collosal of a fuckup idea this is to do. Twice.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... %2As%2As-R


Last I saw Steepster itself was down, but nothing new there. I'm pretty pessimistic. But I was from the start.

[debunix]

I posted in two topics, "A Steepster Cleanup Initiative" and "The Future of Steepster".

Anywhere else you'd suggest on Steepster itself?

[bentz98125]

My heart goes out to any and all but especially Chip, who donated so much time to TC to make it what it was, only to get burned for their trouble. I remember first discovering the site and wondering how on earth Adagio was making money from it and if not, how amazing their foresight to promote the industry as a whole rather than just their own parochial interest. Sad to say, TC’s demise killed my amazement all the way dead. Sometimes peoples’ highest achievements happen by enthusiasm and serendipity rather than premeditated commercial calculation. Which isn’t to say commerce always undermines the best of what people do, but never underestimate its ability to elevate the short- over the long- run, or to squander a lifetime of earned credibility for a single, one time payoff. Business schools, economics departments, and law schools all pride themselves on teaching their students the practice and applaud whenever one of their graduates pulls it off. It’s enough to make one look for solace in a lofty community of tea enthusiasts just sharing a love of all things tea. You know, kind of like...Tea Chat!

[Greywacke]

Now that Steepster's back up, those are probably the two best threads.

Yeah. I understand that a company's priority is never really going to be fostering information, unless it's for some gain. TeaChat existing unscathed is a feat in itself. This has been frustrating to watch.

[debunix]

TeaChat existing unscathed

I would not call it unscathed.

[aet]

I was just wondering, would be possible to make same DB here as on Steepster ? ( I mean create some vendor's list with possibility to users add the products they've bought with writing some review / tasting notes )
I believe some people would copy-paste their stuff from steepster to here to fill up the DB.

The question is:
1) is it still popular doing so? ( writing the taste notes )
2) is it still "in" to be active user of some tea community? ( I mean in the scale it was 5-10 years ago for example )
3) is new generation of tea drinkers interested in some PhP,SQL based forums? ( I mean by that like simple clean page like this one , since there is IG,FB and others )

[pedant]

I was just wondering, would be possible to make same DB here as on Steepster ?

hi aet,

of course it is possible, but it would be a non-trivial amount of work. i was actually thinking of doing that when people at steepster were complaining about site issues and apparent abandonment of the site (before adagio bought them out). i'd probably write it in django and react and have it use this forum's existing system for logging in, user management, etc.

my idea would have been to add similar (but imo better) functionality as steepster. better user experience, and maybe also a way to review tea houses.

and possibly also a feature to let users automatically migrate their data over. it might have worked like this...

• a user logs into our site and points the system to their steepster proifle
• our system generates a unique token and instructs the user to post it publicly somewhere on their steepster account (in their bio or in a new review or something)
• by doing so, they prove ownership of their steepster account to our system
• our system then scrapes their steepster account and migrates their reviews and perhaps optionally gives them a zip file of their data for their own purposes

but many of the same questions that you have entered my mind. how many people would actually want that? would it actually be a worthwhile endeavor? etc etc
hard to say. honestly, it seems most people just want fb groups and instagram. but not me -- i'm allergic to fb

also, things have changed a little. now steepster has a new benefactor. i'm not holding my breath, but it's possible that adagio will do a really good job with the site and make it better than ever.

[aet]

and possibly also a feature to let users automatically migrate their data over. it might have worked like this...

since you have mentioned that , I believe that Adagio would make an some precautions to make that happen. I mean , something what would make harder or impossible do some automatic or semi-automatic data transfer.
I don't know about their future plans for the Steepster, yet I believe ability to access to the DB internally is already big advantage as they can freely harvest and use the information for marketing / research purposes. Things like , easily filter out "what is the most popular tea" , "the best reviewed tea" , "users geo location" ...etc. All that can get on clean sheet page and work marketing strategy on that.
They might fix some bugs and maybe do some improvements , but since the interest in such a websites / forums decreasing ( in my opinion ) , I doubt they would invest too much time and money to make something great. I might be wrong,..it's just my personal opinion.

For you website :
I think you have much greater potential than you think I mean, even start with the name of the website. "Steepster" ...steeping tea..the term is know only to dedicated group of people and although the website popping out on front google pages thanks to the reviews of thousands teas, I don't think it's gonna be forever like that. What I'm trying to say, if your website has also reviews but more SEO friendly for google ( means google would see / index better , have better access to text, like seeing some important key words and not only the "tea has leather notes" , "earthy notes" etc. )

Should you be able to break your hate to FB ( which I'm not fan of also , but need it for business ) and explore more options on IG , there might be some way to implement TF in social media and get closer to some users, let alone gain new ones.

The thing is that we live in phone / tablet age and websites even with phone versions are less visited than apps. Some people just open the FB , IG , Reddit or anything what has an app and it's adjusted to the phone user experience environment. Like uploading pictures, quick hashtags , selection of anything they need from drop-down option ( means not typing too much ) .

I'm aware of work and time , let alone money , behind all that. And as I mentioned with Steepster before , I don't see any "evil commercial" behaviour if page has some 1 or 2 simple google add banners in order to get some pennies coming in...which are , in my opinion, more than deserved.

I'm not sure if wise to share those ideas publicly , as I believe , competitors are following , so if u have a same feeling, feel free to delete this after reading. But in other hand, I don't think I'm disclosing some revolutionary ideas here

I wish I could help more, but at first I'm a vendor and second I'm not IT developer....so can stay in Fan mode and contribute with posts / comments / advice only.

[Bok]

As we mentioned elsewhere before the big advantage I see of an "old-fashioned" forum like ours is that it is searchable and stays put. Try find what someone said a few weeks ago on IG or FB and it is a major headache... so as an archive and trove of knowledge it has its place.

It also seems to make most people to think a little longer and ponder what and how they are writing than on the more fast-paced social media which is full of nonsensical (mostly worthless) tidbits and snippets.

I do not mind staying a niche offering, if it maintains a certain level of quality of contribution. Which so far is the case. The seriously interested tea people will continue to find us naturally, curiosity will lead the way. Also what is popular opens itself to attack as well... under the radar is not the worst thing.

Having said all that, it seems to me that Steepster-peeps are mostly a different audience than T-Fo-roamers. But I might be wrong about that.

[faj]

It also seems to make most people to think a little longer and ponder what and how they are writing than on the more fast-paced social media which is full of nonsensical (mostly worthless) tidbits and snippets.

True. The device/app an audience uses to interact has a real influence on the content that is created. Aiming for quick viewership growth may not be the best long-term strategy for every endeavor.

[polezaivsani]

I haven't had much to do with Steepster, but have seen the same fate striking almost all grass roots endeavors elsewhere on the Internet, with ad hoc governance built on enthusiasm and advertising. Once the community get past some size, commercial interest will have a say at how it's being run. To a dissatisfaction of community that built it, as it happens usually.

You might have purest intention in mind building another out a new place to have tasting notes at, but somehow the bills however big or small still would need to be payed. Counting on someone's altruism doesn't seem like a sustainable model in the long run. Would people who have had their time and energy burnt having the database taken hostage, be willing to start it all over again or migrate to a new place ran by the same principle (or lack there of)?

It seems to me that building on by community and for community principles might be a better route in the long run. I don't have proofs to turn it into a solid claim, might as well be my wishful thinking. Still, just couple points which i believe have a longer shelf life - 1) supporting the operation financially by the community itself and 2) having all the data in the open (think wikipedia, where anybody could literally take all the data and do anything with it). These two points seem like providing a good protection against any kind of takeover or lock down, which could mean me having more trust in it