Also, the HLS “Da Hong Pao” used by Master Xu is 21% iron oxide and shrinks 27-30%.mafoofan wrote: ↑Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:52 amSo, this is what Xu Yue Feng tells me about the “Da Hong Pao” clay used in his teapots, via Gao/Yinchen:
20+ years ago, Master Xu experimented with sorting out the highest grades of each main variety of zhuni (Zhao Zhuang, Xiao Mei Yao, and Huang Long Shan). He found that the refined HLS was the best at retaining aromatics and high notes. It also had the highest iron content and the greatest shrinkage rate of the three refined varieties. Thus, he chose the refined HLS to be his “Da Hong Pao” clay. He works with ZZ and XMY zhuni as well, but they are both priced lower than the HLS-derived Da Hong Pao.
Gao tells me HLS zhuni is rarer than the other two, for what it’s worth.
I have seen Steanze post favorably about his XMY zhuni teapot from Master Xu. Maybe if he’s around, he can comment about all of the above.
Yixing
Sounds great.
For some reason, I got more luck with these decorated ones. Here are four more pictures.- Attachments
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This is another of these $200 pots. eBay is full of these. Not bad in my opinion... I won't buy it though since it's not on my list.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Theiere-Chine-s ... 3749908628
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Theiere-Chine-s ... 3749908628
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In regards to books, an anecdote from when I had tea with a few collector friends some days ago: a book was lying around and one of them said “that one is good it’s old and before they made so many good fakes!” Means that even in the books there are doubtful pots as they are usually published by people with their own related interests... collectors not wanting to admit they got scammed, antique sellers who want to still get rid of them etc.
I am not a fan of Xu Yue Feng's Da Hong Pao clay. It looks very red, almost like some iron oxide - added pots I have seen, and the texture is not as smooth. For me, that detracts from the aesthetics of zhuni. In my view, the Xiao Mei Yao zhuni looks more like the examples of Qing zhuni I have. I'd suggest to ask them to show you options in different clays along with prices.mafoofan wrote: ↑Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:52 amSo, this is what Xu Yue Feng tells me about the “Da Hong Pao” clay used in his teapots, via Gao/Yinchen:
20+ years ago, Master Xu experimented with sorting out the highest grades of each main variety of zhuni (Zhao Zhuang, Xiao Mei Yao, and Huang Long Shan). He found that the refined HLS was the best at retaining aromatics and high notes. It also had the highest iron content and the greatest shrinkage rate of the three refined varieties. Thus, he chose the refined HLS to be his “Da Hong Pao” clay. He works with ZZ and XMY zhuni as well, but they are both priced lower than the HLS-derived Da Hong Pao.
Gao tells me HLS zhuni is rarer than the other two, for what it’s worth.
I have seen Steanze post favorably about his XMY zhuni teapot from Master Xu. Maybe if he’s around, he can comment about all of the above.
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To his and maybe others’ credit, I don’t think it is being held out as a distinct ore. Master Xu is quite explicit that his “Da Hong Pao” is just what he considers to be his top grade, refined zhuni.
I’m okay with that in concept. The key is how reputable and trustworthy the potter is—that is where my anxiety has shifted.
The plot thickens.
I have observed that two different seals are associated with Xu Yue Feng’s studio. Gleaning from Chinese websites as best I can, one seal seems to be more prevalent on considerably less expensive pots. Is it possible it denotes apprentice work?
For reference, Master Xu’s name in Chinese characters is 许跃峰.
Here are the two different seals:
Any light shed would be much appreciated—thanks!
I have observed that two different seals are associated with Xu Yue Feng’s studio. Gleaning from Chinese websites as best I can, one seal seems to be more prevalent on considerably less expensive pots. Is it possible it denotes apprentice work?
For reference, Master Xu’s name in Chinese characters is 许跃峰.
Here are the two different seals:
Any light shed would be much appreciated—thanks!
Nice to have a clay expert in the forum.Yes, the original 黄金朱泥 should be from Zhaozhuang. This is a pot by Jiang Xiangyu made of Zhaozhuang 黄金朱泥:
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when I asked Xu Yuefeng about the clay he called "黄金朱泥", he said it was from Xiao Mei Yao. Maybe he made a mistake, or maybe he "reused" the name 黄金朱泥 for a batch of Xiao Mei Yao clay he used that looked more yellow than the usual darker color of Xiao Mei Yao zhuni. Either way, that particular batch he calls 黄金朱泥 is pretty good in my opinion, it is one of the closest modern zhunis to Qing zhuni I have seen (of course with still several differences).It is common for one potter to use several different seals. However, it is also common for a known potter to recruit young up-and-coming potters to make pots and then stamp them with their seal. Sometimes the up-and-coming younger potters don't have access to the better clay, the more established potter can buy the better clay and provide it to them, and then sell the pots for a higher price due to his reputation. I am not saying that Xu Yuefeng is doing that, there is really not enough information here to reach a clear conclusion, I am just mentioning some practices that happen in the world of Yixing. Ultimately one should watch a lot of pots, and judge whether the clay and workmanship are good. If clay and workmanship are good, I wouldn't worry too much about whether it's the work of an apprentice - in any case these are not "artistic level" pots where the artist was the first to invent a new style/shape.mafoofan wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:17 pmThe plot thickens.
I have observed that two different seals are associated with Xu Yue Feng’s studio. Gleaning from Chinese websites as best I can, one seal seems to be more prevalent on considerably less expensive pots. Is it possible it denotes apprentice work?
For reference, Master Xu’s name in Chinese characters is 许跃峰.
Here are the two different seals:
Any light shed would be much appreciated—thanks!
In my view, the clay of the pot on top is better (although I might be wrong, the top picture isn't very clear)
I was just trying to refer to that, at least that name actually refers to a type of raw zhuni ore. Ofc they can just use it for whatever they want, but still better than DHP, which is totally undefined, and basically changes by studio, what they call DHP. Just like the term "Lao Zhuni", which also doesn't refer to anything. More of a Style or certain look after firing. Just like Lipini, when not talking about Lüni.steanze wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:56 pm
Yes, the original 黄金朱泥 should be from Zhaozhuang. This is a pot by Jiang Xiangyu made of Zhaozhuang 黄金朱泥:
in Yixing, names get used and misused in all kinds of way in descriptions of pots
Yes I understood what you meant, that's right, "da hong pao" and "lao zhuni" are more vague. "Lao zhuni" in particular is the one I dislike most, because it's even more misleading.Youzi wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:29 pm
I was just trying to refer to that, at least that name actually refers to a type of raw zhuni ore. Ofc they can just use it for whatever they want, but still better than DHP, which is totally undefined, and basically changes by studio, what they call DHP. Just like the term "Lao Zhuni", which also doesn't refer to anything. More of a Style or certain look after firing. Just like Lipini, when not talking about Lüni.