I’ll check out their tea and compare it to other vendors and give my honest opinion. I expect based on responses here that they have overpriced mediocre tea. If I am pleasantly surprised I’ll make sure to spread the good word.
Mei leaf
Ok well, some responses emit paranoia that someone from meileaf is trying to infiltrate the tea forums
I’ll check out their tea and compare it to other vendors and give my honest opinion. I expect based on responses here that they have overpriced mediocre tea. If I am pleasantly surprised I’ll make sure to spread the good word.
I’ll check out their tea and compare it to other vendors and give my honest opinion. I expect based on responses here that they have overpriced mediocre tea. If I am pleasantly surprised I’ll make sure to spread the good word.
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pizzapotamus
- Posts: 60
- Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:52 pm
You should listen to this guy with regards to buying what he's saying.
No idea of the quality of his teas, no desire to do business with someone who I know I can't trust which is where I'm at from patently silly claims like his 1600year tea. Sure mistakes happen but the more one is trying to pass themselves off as an expert the less leeway they get.
Hahaha Touché.pizzapotamus wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:17 pmYou should listen to this guy with regards to buying what he's saying.No idea of the quality of his teas, no desire to do business with someone who I know I can't trust which is where I'm at from patently silly claims like his 1600year tea. Sure mistakes happen but the more one is trying to pass themselves off as an expert the less leeway they get.
BUT...
I don’t watch his videos to learn about “his” tea or any of the claims about the tea he sells. I watch them to learn about tea in general, and what is sought after different types. I’ll give you an example. “My tea is 1600 years old...the oldest in etc.etc.” This tells me old trees are sought after for various reasons and what the age means for the tea. Gathering bits of information rather than automatically agreeing with everything he says...sort of like with you guys
I don’t plan on buying one of his “special” red clay pots...because the price does not make sense. But I’m curious to know if he does source good teas. He obviously takes trips to China and Japan so...that’s a pretty good start.
“I’ll tell you what, you can get a good look at a t-bone by sticking your head up a bull’s ass, but I’d rather take the butcher’s word for it.” — Tommy Boy
You’ve got a half dozen or more “butchers” here. I’d take their word for it.
What’s the harm in drinking mediocre or bad teas, you might ask?
Well, they can make you ill or at least feel ill. I recently felt sick from a bad sample of tea. It was so bad I put a serious pause on my tea drinking.
One person here mentioned the catch in the throat commonly associated with improper pesticide applications after drinking a tea from ML.
A friend of mine died last year of stomach cancer and I wonder if it was because she had to sample bad teas to curate high quality teas.
Bad teas make you feel bad. It’s the same with cheap wines, just ask your sommelier, chef.
You asked for an opinion and many were given: sleazy marketing practices, mediocre tea quality, misinformation, deception, etc.
Just how badly do you want to look at that t-bone?
You’ve got a half dozen or more “butchers” here. I’d take their word for it.
What’s the harm in drinking mediocre or bad teas, you might ask?
Well, they can make you ill or at least feel ill. I recently felt sick from a bad sample of tea. It was so bad I put a serious pause on my tea drinking.
One person here mentioned the catch in the throat commonly associated with improper pesticide applications after drinking a tea from ML.
A friend of mine died last year of stomach cancer and I wonder if it was because she had to sample bad teas to curate high quality teas.
Bad teas make you feel bad. It’s the same with cheap wines, just ask your sommelier, chef.
You asked for an opinion and many were given: sleazy marketing practices, mediocre tea quality, misinformation, deception, etc.
Just how badly do you want to look at that t-bone?
I think we are pushing too far this thing with Mei Leaf. Tea drinkers can be really sensitive sometimes. I don’t defend them, I am well aware of their story and controversies — and let’s be honest they are not the only one got caught. I also find their videos off-putting, Don’s presence could be so pushy at times. But I think we should give them some credit too.
Probably big portion of tea drinkers on the educational journey at some point ran into Mei Leaf. I know I did learn a lot about tea and varieties of it from their videos. But Mei Leaf was not my only source of information as I really wanted to dig deeper with my tea education and because of that I can/could always question their remarks, at least theoretically as I still don’t see myself as an experienced tea drinker — apart from maybe Japanese senchas, maybe.
That being said I don’t think their teas are that bad. Even less poisonous. I mean they have a Tea Shop in London and they need to follow some regulations just to stay open. If you want bad tea, please visit our local tea shops in Ljubljana. You don’t wanna know what they are selling as premium tea. And at what price! Horror. Selling ripe Pu erhs as only Pu erhs that exists. This for me is outrageous as tea shops should educate their customers not selling them the only truth. But they don’t know better. They don’t have the community. Tea is not popular here. We are coffee drinkers nation. And shops just want to survive by selling what people are prepared to buy.
So for me, Mei Leaf is doing great work in expanding the awareness about tea — it is their fault that you can order/brew sheng gong fu style in Tate modern now! And I think there is no vendor outside Mei Leaf, that will hold your hand on your tea journey as they do. They show you how to taste tea, how to take notes and you can experience the tea you bought with them through their videos. And soon you might find doing it for yourself without the need for their videos and with teas from other vendors. That is why I think many vendors should be thankful that Mei Leaf is doing what is doing because it is inevitable that adventurous tea drinkers will sooner or later gravitate towards other options or better tea if you want.
As a noob, I see tea as a journey. If you start with top quality tea this is an immediate end game. Where do you go from there? And how would you appreciate those teas If you don’t have nothing to compare them with if you don’t know how less quality (not mediocre) tea taste? So right now I enjoy Mei Leaf samples that I bought. Some types of tea I tried for the first time. But I am aware this is not top quality and I know their markup is quite high. But I am excited about what’s coming next. I don’t think I will ever purchase from them again as I want to experience all those new vendors I read about here there and everywhere. But as repellent as this may sound it is also Mei Leaf’s fault that I became so interested in teas. That I found teadb, Yunnan sourcing, crimson lotus, etc. videos interesting too. That I start reading about yixing, bought my first yixing pots and built a collection of them, fell in love with Jiri Duchek, Stefan Andersson, Hokujo and other interesting potters and it is partially their fault that I am building my first collection of teas from pu-erh.sk, tea.pl, bitterleafteas, whisperingpinestea, essenceoftea, kingteamall, eco cha and other vendors different vendors and am very excited about what tea I am gonna try/drink next.
Probably big portion of tea drinkers on the educational journey at some point ran into Mei Leaf. I know I did learn a lot about tea and varieties of it from their videos. But Mei Leaf was not my only source of information as I really wanted to dig deeper with my tea education and because of that I can/could always question their remarks, at least theoretically as I still don’t see myself as an experienced tea drinker — apart from maybe Japanese senchas, maybe.
That being said I don’t think their teas are that bad. Even less poisonous. I mean they have a Tea Shop in London and they need to follow some regulations just to stay open. If you want bad tea, please visit our local tea shops in Ljubljana. You don’t wanna know what they are selling as premium tea. And at what price! Horror. Selling ripe Pu erhs as only Pu erhs that exists. This for me is outrageous as tea shops should educate their customers not selling them the only truth. But they don’t know better. They don’t have the community. Tea is not popular here. We are coffee drinkers nation. And shops just want to survive by selling what people are prepared to buy.
So for me, Mei Leaf is doing great work in expanding the awareness about tea — it is their fault that you can order/brew sheng gong fu style in Tate modern now! And I think there is no vendor outside Mei Leaf, that will hold your hand on your tea journey as they do. They show you how to taste tea, how to take notes and you can experience the tea you bought with them through their videos. And soon you might find doing it for yourself without the need for their videos and with teas from other vendors. That is why I think many vendors should be thankful that Mei Leaf is doing what is doing because it is inevitable that adventurous tea drinkers will sooner or later gravitate towards other options or better tea if you want.
As a noob, I see tea as a journey. If you start with top quality tea this is an immediate end game. Where do you go from there? And how would you appreciate those teas If you don’t have nothing to compare them with if you don’t know how less quality (not mediocre) tea taste? So right now I enjoy Mei Leaf samples that I bought. Some types of tea I tried for the first time. But I am aware this is not top quality and I know their markup is quite high. But I am excited about what’s coming next. I don’t think I will ever purchase from them again as I want to experience all those new vendors I read about here there and everywhere. But as repellent as this may sound it is also Mei Leaf’s fault that I became so interested in teas. That I found teadb, Yunnan sourcing, crimson lotus, etc. videos interesting too. That I start reading about yixing, bought my first yixing pots and built a collection of them, fell in love with Jiri Duchek, Stefan Andersson, Hokujo and other interesting potters and it is partially their fault that I am building my first collection of teas from pu-erh.sk, tea.pl, bitterleafteas, whisperingpinestea, essenceoftea, kingteamall, eco cha and other vendors different vendors and am very excited about what tea I am gonna try/drink next.
i've never tried mei leaf tea, but i've seen a few videos. i think for new people, they're entertaining and engaging, and they have some educational value. they're also clearly sales pitches (which is fine).
i tend to stereotype vendors to a certain extent based on their location.
as a US-based shopper, the UK ranks fairly high on my mental lists of perceived overhead, cost of living, import/export duty, shipping costs, and other encumbrances. this causes me to perceive their value (quality per USD) as relatively low. for comparison, i'd rank much of europe slightly better or about the same, and i'd expect australia to be worse value.
similarly, if a shop has a NYC storefront, i would also expect the value to be relatively low even though i'm in the US.
even so, i sometimes order from stores like T SHOP NY because of their overall high level of absolute quality. as for mei leaf, given that i've never heard glowing reviews of any of their teas (and therefore they probably have mid-level quality), they've never enticed me enough to order. the perceived quality is not enough to overcome the perceived lower value. i know this assessment isn't exactly fair, but that's one of the ways i think about it.
TL,DR: as a US shopper, i personally wouldn't order tea from a shop in australia, the UK, NYC, LA, SF, et al. unless the tea is supposed to be really good.
i tend to stereotype vendors to a certain extent based on their location.
as a US-based shopper, the UK ranks fairly high on my mental lists of perceived overhead, cost of living, import/export duty, shipping costs, and other encumbrances. this causes me to perceive their value (quality per USD) as relatively low. for comparison, i'd rank much of europe slightly better or about the same, and i'd expect australia to be worse value.
similarly, if a shop has a NYC storefront, i would also expect the value to be relatively low even though i'm in the US.
even so, i sometimes order from stores like T SHOP NY because of their overall high level of absolute quality. as for mei leaf, given that i've never heard glowing reviews of any of their teas (and therefore they probably have mid-level quality), they've never enticed me enough to order. the perceived quality is not enough to overcome the perceived lower value. i know this assessment isn't exactly fair, but that's one of the ways i think about it.
TL,DR: as a US shopper, i personally wouldn't order tea from a shop in australia, the UK, NYC, LA, SF, et al. unless the tea is supposed to be really good.
This sums up my feelings on Mei Leaf pretty much perfectly. I haven't tried his teas, but I've seen enough incorrect information on his website and youtube to know that he is more hat than cattle.Atlas wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:43 amYou may be (and I suspect are) confusing "knowledge" with "details".
Having watched a few of his deep-dive videos and a couple of basics videos (though not for about a year):
- The enthusiasm and production values are excellent, and I can't really criticise him for his schtick just because I personally hate it.
- Many of his basic how-to videos provide, imho, excellent primers, and I think they provide a valuable service that no-one else is providing. They get people excited about tea, too, which is fantastic.
- Some of the details/theories he provides about tea, clays etc have the stink of "stuff he's been told but has never independently verified". Some of it doesn't scan given even cursory analysis (his explanation of yixing comes to mind, but as I say it's been a long while). The errors you can see make everything else suspect, if only because it makes him seem credulous.
- Newbies who can't spot the problems are generally taken in by the level of detail, because they can't vet anything and thus have to go on confidence and detail... and he has those in spades.
I can't comment personally on his teas, but that's because I've heard from people I trust who have had them that they do not live up to the expectations set by their prices. That doesn't mean you have to trust it, but it's silly to expect everyone you ask to respond with specific details of what they didn't like about particular teas in the context of a "is this vendor good?" thread.
Just one example - his Dong Ding oolong. While it is marketed as "Dong Ding", it is not actually Dong Ding. To his credit, he admits as much in the description / origin (it is Alishan), but in the process he makes false claims about Dong Ding leaves being inferior (this simply isn't true). I have had cheap Alishan roasted in order to make it look/taste more like Dong Ding. Some people love it. But even if it tastes like "good tea", it doesn't taste like Dong Ding. This is a nuanced issue that many entry level tea people don't understand (they want their tea to taste "good"), but more experienced tea drinkers can't stand (they want their tea to taste like something specific, neither "good" nor "bad").
Another example is his Hou Kui. Again, he starts off with false marketing, calling it "Monkey Picked Tea" and "Monkey King". Both of these are false, and he admits as much in the description, but he falsely applies a legend that originated in Anxi about Tie Guan Yin to Hou Kui. This is a story he was probably told by some tea seller in China, and he went with it. Furthermore, while I again admit I have not tried his teas, the picture of the Hou Kui leaves look extremely cheap. Many vendors sell Hou Kui that looks like this, and it is almost always very poor quality. I had a sample from a different vendor and thought it was awful... when I had my mom try it (who happened to be visiting at the time), she gagged.
Or the fact that his matcha he claims is top quality and that it was picked May 2019 --> But any good farmer worth their salt wouldn't even sell their Spring 2019 matcha yet, because it is best to let the tencha rest for 3-6 months before grinding it down.
There is a lots of absurd marketing and false claims around the pu-erh tea ( especially ) to gain the sales. Unfortunately MLF is not filtering it out but amplifying it in to the world with around 50k ? audience at the moment. Not sure if that is compensated by the fact that they help many people get off the T-bags who might be searching later for some more experienced vendor who is having a hard times to sell what is genuine and not 1000y old ( caused by this absurd marketing being viral spread at the first place )
Sure they make more money on beginners which, I believe, are the most of their audience and with the concept they run, it will be. It is fully functional business concept generating money , which in places like London , are never enough. So I'm not angry neither count my self as MLF hater. I understand they work with limited knowledge and resources due to their location , so need to compensate it by unlimited marketing ideas, which makes many tea vendors furious ( those who have it other way around ) .
As it's common , many people knowledgeable about some product are bad in marketing / ability to sell it...not only tea. And in puerh tea biz seems like - less u know ,the easier is to sell , because u just pass that "beautiful" marketing blabla to your customers without any hard work ( coz all done for you already ) .
I admit , I was angry also when first time learned about them and took me while to ignore / accept this.
Yet, I still feel to help / navigate fresh members of community trough that marketing chaos which comes from China, so I'm spending my valuable time writing long posts despite of negative reactions ( usually from the posters ) .
Although hanging threads on front page of steepster or other places like here might seem helping them to be more visible on internet, yet , if you read ( even briefly ) through few of them , I'm not sure who would purchase anything after reading it. So no need to be upset with this either.
I also understand that for the beginner their videos might look very professional , educational and vendor seems to be experienced. Well, in my personal opinion and experience , he is not ( at least not in Yunnan teas ) . And that's the whole point of my contribution to this thread which I documented by additional information ( like links ) , Why I think the vendor is a beginner without even trying their products . Just simply on claims they state.
I purposely highlighted "think" because of course I don't know Don personally , but I believe all those claims are not intentional ( knowing that these are not true ) like some Chinese vendors do here.
I do not write towards to the quality of their products! I haven't tried any of their tea , but as said here already. Be a smart buyer, know your priorities. These days can buy tea directly from the country of origin and to US , there is EMS small pack which makes shipping fee reasonable even with smaller amounts. If u r in Uk or EU and want your tea "2morrow" without import tax, it would make a sense, otherwise I do not understand. Does video make their tea taste better? For beginners, probably yes.
anyway, enjoy the tea, not the story;-)
Sure they make more money on beginners which, I believe, are the most of their audience and with the concept they run, it will be. It is fully functional business concept generating money , which in places like London , are never enough. So I'm not angry neither count my self as MLF hater. I understand they work with limited knowledge and resources due to their location , so need to compensate it by unlimited marketing ideas, which makes many tea vendors furious ( those who have it other way around ) .
As it's common , many people knowledgeable about some product are bad in marketing / ability to sell it...not only tea. And in puerh tea biz seems like - less u know ,the easier is to sell , because u just pass that "beautiful" marketing blabla to your customers without any hard work ( coz all done for you already ) .
I admit , I was angry also when first time learned about them and took me while to ignore / accept this.
Yet, I still feel to help / navigate fresh members of community trough that marketing chaos which comes from China, so I'm spending my valuable time writing long posts despite of negative reactions ( usually from the posters ) .
Although hanging threads on front page of steepster or other places like here might seem helping them to be more visible on internet, yet , if you read ( even briefly ) through few of them , I'm not sure who would purchase anything after reading it. So no need to be upset with this either.
I also understand that for the beginner their videos might look very professional , educational and vendor seems to be experienced. Well, in my personal opinion and experience , he is not ( at least not in Yunnan teas ) . And that's the whole point of my contribution to this thread which I documented by additional information ( like links ) , Why I think the vendor is a beginner without even trying their products . Just simply on claims they state.
I purposely highlighted "think" because of course I don't know Don personally , but I believe all those claims are not intentional ( knowing that these are not true ) like some Chinese vendors do here.
I do not write towards to the quality of their products! I haven't tried any of their tea , but as said here already. Be a smart buyer, know your priorities. These days can buy tea directly from the country of origin and to US , there is EMS small pack which makes shipping fee reasonable even with smaller amounts. If u r in Uk or EU and want your tea "2morrow" without import tax, it would make a sense, otherwise I do not understand. Does video make their tea taste better? For beginners, probably yes.
anyway, enjoy the tea, not the story;-)
Don’t forget to order a Shamwow.
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This is a very good point and one that I believe is too often overlooked. This is even more of an issue if the vendor has the extra overhead of a brick and mortar shop.pedant wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:22 pmi tend to stereotype vendors to a certain extent based on their location.
as a US-based shopper, the UK ranks fairly high on my mental lists of perceived overhead, cost of living, import/export duty, shipping costs, and other encumbrances. this causes me to perceive their value (quality per USD) as relatively low. for comparison, i'd rank much of europe slightly better or about the same, and i'd expect australia to be worse value.
similarly, if a shop has a NYC storefront, i would also expect the value to be relatively low even though i'm in the US.
I swear, London is one of a few places on this planet that can make Disney World look like a non-profit organization.
I think the general underpinnings of this line of thought are valid (more expenses = higher prices), but I'd be careful about extrapolating it too far.Dresden wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:33 amThis is a very good point and one that I believe is too often overlooked. This is even more of an issue if the vendor has the extra overhead of a brick and mortar shop.pedant wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:22 pmi tend to stereotype vendors to a certain extent based on their location.
as a US-based shopper, the UK ranks fairly high on my mental lists of perceived overhead, cost of living, import/export duty, shipping costs, and other encumbrances. this causes me to perceive their value (quality per USD) as relatively low. for comparison, i'd rank much of europe slightly better or about the same, and i'd expect australia to be worse value.
similarly, if a shop has a NYC storefront, i would also expect the value to be relatively low even though i'm in the US.
I swear, London is one of a few places on this planet that can make Disney World look like a non-profit organization.
Currently, my wife's business would be considered "low overhead" (no brick and mortar, online only, paying essentially nothing for storage costs due to a business partnership, etc.). We have toyed around with the idea of opening a brick and mortar shop in a very high traffic (Read: Expensive) area. If/when we do this, our tea would still be the exact same cost per ounce, whether it is purchased online or in the store.
Margins and Volumes are offsetting (to a certain extent)... it really all depends on how the brick and mortar is operating, what sort of revenues they are doing, and how they sell product.
With all that said - I know several shops in NYC that mark their teas up significantly (Tea Drunk comes to mind. Shunan does incredible work and you know you're getting a good tea, true to origin, but those prices are just silly). I don't know enough about Mei Leaf's shop to know where it fits into this analysis.
That’s ridiculous to assume tea gave your friend cancer. You have more of a chance contributing to cancer from the food you eat every day from your local grocery store.Baisao wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:27 am
A friend of mine died last year of stomach cancer and I wonder if it was because she had to sample bad teas to curate high quality teas.
You asked for an opinion and many were given: sleazy marketing practices, mediocre tea quality, misinformation, deception, etc.
Just how badly do you want to look at that t-bone?
To assume misinformation and/or deception, along with mediocre tea doesn’t come from YOUR personal favorite vendors is misinformed and outright naive in itself. I simply wanted to hear experiences with their tea. If you were to use examples of experience instead of regurgitating popular opinions and an assumptions rooted in no evidence at all, I might listen to ya.
