What Black Are You Drinking

[Victoria]

I've been drinking a lot of lightly oxidized black teas

Aren't all black teas fully oxidised by definition?

Technically, yes. But consider Darjeeling First Flush teas. They continue to be categorized and sold as black teas, even thought they are processed in a manner similar to oolongs. While I can't change the way the Tea Board of India officially categorizes such tea, I feel it makes sense to add a necessary descriptor like "lightly oxidized" so as to add a point of differentiation. So I would call such "black" teas lightly oxidized to distinguish them from say Assam black teas which tend to be fully oxidized.

But technically you are correct

If teas are going to be categorized based on processing methods, then from my understanding the processing of lightly oxidized 1st flush Darjeeling is still that of a black tea, i.e. the process determines categories, not levels of oxidation. With the lightly oxidized 1st flush blacks the withering process is longer than typical, extracting more moisture thereby slowing down oxidation. From withering the leaves are then rolled, and only then layed out for a short period to partially oxidize, and then to dry. With oolong the process is a little different; after withering, leaves are tossed/partially oxidized/baked/rolled and then roasted/dried.

Black Processing
Withering　→　Rolling　→　Oxidation　→　Drying

Oolong Processing
Withering 　→　Tossing: Bruising & Oxidation 　→　 Fixation: Pan Fry Roasted/Tumble Dry 　→　 Rolling & Drying　→　Roasting or Final Drying

[YatraTeaCo]

Aren't all black teas fully oxidised by definition?

Technically, yes. But consider Darjeeling First Flush teas. They continue to be categorized and sold as black teas, even thought they are processed in a manner similar to oolongs. While I can't change the way the Tea Board of India officially categorizes such tea, I feel it makes sense to add a necessary descriptor like "lightly oxidized" so as to add a point of differentiation. So I would call such "black" teas lightly oxidized to distinguish them from say Assam black teas which tend to be fully oxidized.

But technically you are correct

If teas are going to be categorized based on processing methods, then from my understanding the processing of lightly oxidized 1st flush Darjeeling is still that of a black tea, i.e. the process determines categories, not levels of oxidation. With the lightly oxidized 1st flush blacks the withering process is longer than typical, extracting more moisture thereby slowing down oxidation. From withering the leaves are then rolled, and only then layed out for a short period to partially oxidize, and then to dry. With oolong the process is a little different; after withering, leaves are tossed/partially oxidized/baked/rolled and then roasted/dried.

Black Processing
Withering　→　Rolling　→　Oxidation　→　Drying

Oolong Processing
Withering 　→　Tossing: Bruising & Oxidation 　→　 Fixation: Pan Fry Roasted/Tumble Dry 　→　 Rolling & Drying　→　Roasting or Final Drying

You are right. I wrongly utilized the word "processing". In my mind I meant something very different. It has been one of those days. Very little I did today was right!

Thanks for correcting.

[Victoria]

Sorry, didn’t mean to correct you just wanted to clarify. I often refer to Taiwan Oriental Beauty as black, even though it is actually a highly oxidized oolong. @YatraTeaCo how well would you say 1st flush Darjeeling age after packaging? Are intentionally aged or fermented Darjeeling a thing?

[YatraTeaCo]

Sorry, didn’t mean to correct you just wanted to clarify. I often refer to Taiwan Oriental Beauty as black, even though it is actually a highly oxidized oolong. YatraTeaCo how well would you say 1st flush Darjeeling age after packaging? Are intentionally aged or fermented Darjeeling a thing?

I have a couple of Darjeelings from 2017 set aside for this very experimentation. I can't profess to know a whole lot about aged Darjeelings, but the one that was an earlier invoice tea seems to have mellowed a bit (doesn't taste as green as it did in 2017). Not to confuse with having gone stale, because the flavors, aroma, etc. are still very much on point. The later invoice Darjeeling I kept aside seems to be more or less the same. But then again, I don't have the most trained palate! Also, I feel the Northeast US isn't the best place temperature wise to allow teas to "mature".

Vintage Darjeeling FF teas are gaining some popularity but the market for it doesn't seem to be vast. Also, there is some suspicion around whether it is vintage purely because someone wasn't able to sell it, or was it aged under proper conditions.

Generally, good FF Darjeelings sell out easily. Yield is decreasing, but demand, especially from Germany, France, and Japan is high. So I feel like a reputable seller marketing vintage Darjeeling tea must be doing so not because he/she is unable to move inventory.

[Bok]

I would suspect it to age in a similar way to stronger oxidised Baozhong or Oriental beauty. Wouldn’t test drink before a good ten years though, my experience with those two showed me that they need longer to taste nice aged. Other Oolongs can be drinkable after as early as five years.

[Victoria]

I would suspect it to age in a similar way to stronger oxidised Baozhong or Oriental beauty. Wouldn’t test drink before a good ten years though, my experience with those two showed me that they need longer to taste nice aged. Other Oolongs can be drinkable after as early as five years.

My question was regarding aging lightly oxidized 1st flush Darjeeling. Regarding Oriental Beauty I’ve had excellent ones that are not aged, are you referring to intentionally aged ones? I’m thinking that’s probably what you meant.

[Bok]

I would suspect it to age in a similar way to stronger oxidised Baozhong or Oriental beauty. Wouldn’t test drink before a good ten years though, my experience with those two showed me that they need longer to taste nice aged. Other Oolongs can be drinkable after as early as five years.

Sorry my question was regarding aging lightly oxidized 1st flush Darjeeling. Regarding Oriental Beauty I’ve had excellent ones that are not aged, are you referring to intentionally aged ones? I’m thinking that’s probably what you meant.

I think aging will only realistically work for more oxidised Darjeeling. Lower oxidised can work, but you won’t be able to enjoy in your lifetime... I think there is potential in any tea to age to something interesting but the question is how long you need to wait for it.

Yes intentionally aged OB. It can be nice, but it is more rare to find.

[Zealousy]

I drank some 2018 Singbulli Estate First Flush Darjeeling from Yatra this morning and came to ask why it was so green, and here the vendor is talking about just the same thing! Mind you, I only used 2.5g in 100ml gaiwan, which might be too little, but the liquor came out yellow. Maybe that's to be expected. The leaves looked quite green.

[YatraTeaCo]

I drank some 2018 Singbulli Estate First Flush Darjeeling from Yatra this morning and came to ask why it was so green, and here the vendor is talking about just the same thing! Mind you, I only used 2.5g in 100ml gaiwan, which might be too little, but the liquor came out yellow. Maybe that's to be expected. The leaves looked quite green.

FF Darjeeling liquor should be a shade of yellow, typically bright. And there is a fair bit of green in the dry leaf. How long were your steeps? Sounds like you brewed gong fu?

I brew Darjeelings Western style - typically 2.5 gms per say 175 ml. I'm not sure about the proportions for gong fu brewing. I've had a few folks try it gong fu with good results, but I would assume that the astringency which is inherent in FF Darjeelings would be quite prominent in later steeps...

What were your thoughts on the tea?

[YatraTeaCo]

Interesting article I found on aged/vintage Darjeeling FF teas...

https://hojotea.com/en/posts-37/

[Victoria]

Interesting article I found on aged/vintage Darjeeling FF teas...

https://hojotea.com/en/posts-37/

Yes, very interesting, it sounds so delishious. His aging process is mainly to just use heat (30 degree Celsius) to age the tea leaves, and it only took 4 years. Re aging 1st flush Darjeeling; ‘We pack tea without oxygen, low humidity and maintain higher temperature so as to get it to mature faster.’

[Zealousy]

I drank some 2018 Singbulli Estate First Flush Darjeeling from Yatra this morning and came to ask why it was so green, and here the vendor is talking about just the same thing! Mind you, I only used 2.5g in 100ml gaiwan, which might be too little, but the liquor came out yellow. Maybe that's to be expected. The leaves looked quite green.

FF Darjeeling liquor should be a shade of yellow, typically bright. And there is a fair bit of green in the dry leaf. How long were your steeps? Sounds like you brewed gong fu?

I brew Darjeelings Western style - typically 2.5 gms per say 175 ml. I'm not sure about the proportions for gong fu brewing. I've had a few folks try it gong fu with good results, but I would assume that the astringency which is inherent in FF Darjeelings would be quite prominent in later steeps...

What were your thoughts on the tea?

So far I am taking my time with the sampler. One new tea a day. The Nepali Assam I tried western style and found it lacking, but 5g/100ml in the gaiwan really kicked butt. I only used 2.5g/100ml in the gaiwan for the Singbulli, which seemed a little on the low end. Like you said, the liquor was a golden yellow. I haven't noticed any real forward astringency, which is nice because it's only there as much as is necessary and not bitter at all. I will brew it again soon with a higher leaf to water ratio and see what happens because the flavor was somewhat simple and tunneled in on one note. As I go through the rest of the catalogue I'll be sure to chime in. The oolong was really awesome! I hope to find the others near as good as that.

[YatraTeaCo]

I drank some 2018 Singbulli Estate First Flush Darjeeling from Yatra this morning and came to ask why it was so green, and here the vendor is talking about just the same thing! Mind you, I only used 2.5g in 100ml gaiwan, which might be too little, but the liquor came out yellow. Maybe that's to be expected. The leaves looked quite green.

FF Darjeeling liquor should be a shade of yellow, typically bright. And there is a fair bit of green in the dry leaf. How long were your steeps? Sounds like you brewed gong fu?

I brew Darjeelings Western style - typically 2.5 gms per say 175 ml. I'm not sure about the proportions for gong fu brewing. I've had a few folks try it gong fu with good results, but I would assume that the astringency which is inherent in FF Darjeelings would be quite prominent in later steeps...

What were your thoughts on the tea?

So far I am taking my time with the sampler. One new tea a day. The Nepali Assam I tried western style and found it lacking, but 5g/100ml in the gaiwan really kicked butt. I only used 2.5g/100ml in the gaiwan for the Singbulli, which seemed a little on the low end. Like you said, the liquor was a golden yellow. I haven't noticed any real forward astringency, which is nice because it's only there as much as is necessary and not bitter at all. I will brew it again soon with a higher leaf to water ratio and see what happens because the flavor was somewhat simple and tunneled in on one note. As I go through the rest of the catalogue I'll be sure to chime in. The oolong was really awesome! I hope to find the others near as good as that.

Cool, thanks for indulging me. Assuming you meant something other than "Nepali Assam" - there is a Nepali tea (somewhat similar to FF Darjeelings) and an Assam tea as well.

Again, thanks for taking the time to write back! Hope you enjoy the rest of the teas!

[Zealousy]

You're right - the Halmari Assam is the one I meant, not the Nepali black.

Tonight's choice is the Castleton white. I started at 185 for 15s and got nothing. I was worried it was the tea or something I did. I tried 4 or 5 infusions before it dawned on me that I couldn't taste anything because I had burned the roof of my mouth earlier at lunch and dinner with scorching hot pizza. Will try as soon as I can taste things again.

[Teachronicles]

You're right - the Halmari Assam is the one I meant, not the Nepali black.

Tonight's choice is the Castleton white. I started at 185 for 15s and got nothing. I was worried it was the tea or something I did. I tried 4 or 5 infusions before it dawned on me that I couldn't taste anything because I had burned the roof of my mouth earlier at lunch and dinner with scorching hot pizza. Will try as soon as I can taste things again.

Some whites and blacks I've found do much better with longer steeps, even gongfu. Something like 30sec+ initial steeps, then adjust from there. There's one black tea I have that when brewed with normal gongfu times, tastes very mild, almost nothing, like you experienced, but with an initial steep of 45sec is very good.