What Oolong Are You Drinking

[Bok]

Speak of the devil: The aforementioned old school open leaf Dongding. This is a very clean and elegant tea. No roughness or edges whatsoever, though roasted it feels fresh and light. I purposely filled the pot to the brim, pushing it as well with brewing time and always very hot water.

Does not turn bitter, sour or otherwise unpleasant. If I were to compare it to HY Chens teas, I'd say this one seems more mature and effortless in its performance.

From what I know about the background of this tea, it seems the old man making it is the only one left doing it in this style. That said open or rolled leaf has little influence on the taste of the tea.

I tried it three times already, in a porcelain gaiwan, 80s NWLH and now 60s Hongni. I like it better in Hongni.

[swordofmytriumph]

Per my definition and as most people in Taiwan will use the term Dongding, it is a medium to high roasted Oolong. Narrow definition, yes only the ones from Lugu are true DD, also only Qinxing cultivar. In a wider sense, any tea processed in this way is a DD. Typically the ones now winning 1st prize in the Lugu farmer association competition are high mountain leaves, processed in DD style.

Going further, most people will recognise a DD as medium roast, high roast variety is rarer these days. If the roast is too low, you won't get the typical nutty and other notes which are typical.

As far as Hojo goes, I am not so sure, sometimes he makes controversial statements... never heard anything like it in Taiwan.

Thanks!

[Teachronicles]

Speak of the devil: The aforementioned old school open leaf Dongding. This is a very clean and elegant tea. No roughness or edges whatsoever, though roasted it feels fresh and light. I purposely filled the pot to the brim, pushing it as well with brewing time and always very hot water.

Does not turn bitter, sour or otherwise unpleasant. If I were to compare it to HY Chens teas, I'd say this one seems more mature and effortless in its performance.

From what I know about the background of this tea, it seems the old man making it is the only one left doing it in this style. That said open or rolled leaf has little influence on the taste of the tea.

I tried it three times already, in a porcelain gaiwan, 80s NWLH and now 60s Hongni. I like it better in Hongni.

From what I understand, and what you've said, it's not easy to find this style anymore. I'd love to try a highly roasted old style dong ding someday. So far the highest roast stuff I've found has been HK TGY.

[Bok]

Yeah, but that HK stuff is mostly roasted to death, only tolerable over some greasy food or dim sum...

[Teachronicles]

Yeah, but that HK stuff is mostly roasted to death, only tolerable over some greasy food or dim sum...

Yah. Mostly but I've found some good ones, either well roasted, well rested or both. Some not roasted to death too. I figure what I consider not roasted to death, a lot will, as I like the roasty stuff.

[brutusK]

I finally got around to trying some oolongs from Tillerman: the Cuifeng gaoshan from the giveaway, and Muzha TGY.

The cuifeng gaoshan was really pretty great. Though I do like high mountain oolongs, sometimes they can be a little bit temperature sensitive. That was definitely not the case here. Overall it was great tasting and smooth, but what really stood out to me was the lingering aroma. It felt as if I was constantly sipping the tea even half an hour later. Highly recommend for those who enjoy their greener oolongs. I'll definitely be drinking this all down before leading into the 2019 spring season.

As far as the Muzha tgy, I didn't think it steeped up quite as dark and potent as say, floatingleaves's muzha tgy. No matter how long I infused it for in a thick gaiwan, it maintained sort of a delicate mouthfeel and flavor profile. Instead, what really stood out for me from Tillerman's Muzha was...the lingering aroma again. I can't say I've had a tgy where the lingering quality lasts quite as long or evolves quite as much as time goes on. At times, it gave the taste of specifically of a whole grain toasted bread, and other times it mimicked the feeling and aftertaste somewhere between rye whiskey or bourbon. Really quite outstanding lingering quality, for me. Definitely leaf this one hard and focus on the exhale.

[swordofmytriumph]

Currently drinking Hojo’s deep fermented bug bitten Li Shan. I love this tea. It’s got the usual Li Shan character, and a really strong muscat quality from the bug bites, and it has a really deep flavor, like medjool dates and raisins, and something else I can’t put my finger on but keeps me coming back for more. I am on the back porch drinking it. The porch is enclosed so even though there’s frost outside it’s only chilly on the porch. The cold is really bringing out the best qualities of the tea. This is the best session I’ve had in a while.

[chofmann]

Yeah, but that HK stuff is mostly roasted to death, only tolerable over some greasy food or dim sum...

Yah. Mostly but I've found some good ones, either well roasted, well rested or both. Some not roasted to death too. I figure what I consider not roasted to death, a lot will, as I like the roasty stuff.

The difficult thing with a high roast tea is that if you do it improperly, or roast it too much, it just tastes burnt. It is no longer tea, but steeped ashes (an exaggeration, yes, but you get the idea). A lot of cheap yancha or even some cheap roasted dong ding is like this. Many producers will use electric ovens in order to 'finish' high roasts teas because there is less risk or messing it up, but it doesn't taste the same as a traditional charcoal roast.

Also, and Bok please step in if I'm wrong, I don't believe older Dong Dings or open-leaf Dong Dings had a particularly higher roast than modern ones... it was just a different rolling style, right? (that is my understanding anyway). High roasts 'modern-rolled' Dong Dings still exist, thankfully

[d.manuk]

Currently drinking Hojo’s deep fermented bug bitten Li Shan. I love this tea. It’s got the usual Li Shan character, and a really strong muscat quality from the bug bites, and it has a really deep flavor, like medjool dates and raisins, and something else I can’t put my finger on but keeps me coming back for more. I am on the back porch drinking it. The porch is enclosed so even though there’s frost outside it’s only chilly on the porch. The cold is really bringing out the best qualities of the tea. This is the best session I’ve had in a while.

Looks like a great place to drink tea.

[Bok]

@chofmann the one I got is medium roast as well, but higher roast was more en vogue back in the days as it still is for many staple, let’s call them Chinatown style, teas I believe this is due to them being less affected by storage issues and better to transport.

HY Chen’s high roast is pretty good, although it needs rest for a few years before at its best! Mellows our the fire of a younger tea. It’s a difficult to describe sensation, but a tea which is still too much fire is deeply unpleasant. Happens with greener teas as well if not properly processed.

[Bok]

Yeah, but that HK stuff is mostly roasted to death, only tolerable over some greasy food or dim sum...

Yah. Mostly but I've found some good ones, either well roasted, well rested or both. Some not roasted to death too. I figure what I consider not roasted to death, a lot will, as I like the roasty stuff.

You had more luck than me then, I got the supposedly best grade from one of HK oldest tea shops and it was still a far cry from comparably priced Taiwanese TGY. Easy way to tell if a tea is roasted to death is if the leafs stay dark and black after a few infusions, a well roasted tea will show shades of green in the end. Aforementioned teas really benefit from a muting clay to get rid of some of their faults.

[swordofmytriumph]

a well roasted tea will show shades of green in the end.

Good to know.

[Ethan Kurland]

a well roasted tea will show shades of green in the end.

Good to know.

Sometimes it seems that "shades", notes, hints, etc. of flavors and effects of a tea, are more a matter of how I am, than of how the tea is.
If there are too many sessions when I don't pick up most of what a tea gives when I am enjoying an ideal session, I can get put off that tea. I may be the problem, but teas that don't brink out drinkers' deficiencies (teas that are "accessible") make me happier overall.

E.g., I no longer drink (or sell) what I truly believe is an excellent tea (Father's Love) because in the long-run, the expertly roasted and aged high quality oolong was disappointing me too often. Though wonderfully mellow, smooth, and nice-tasting, I would often be upset that I did not detect much of the quality of the original leaves and the processing. Also,I am very aware of prices; so, to pay more for a tea that I cannot appreciate fully always, is bothersome.

[swordofmytriumph]

Sometimes it seems that "shades", notes, hints, etc. of flavors and effects of a tea, are more a matter of how I am, than of how the tea is.

Yeah, I'd say that's pretty accurate. I recently figured out that when I eat anything with sugar it dramatically decreases my ability to sense any flavor in a session. If I have a small amount it isn't too bad, but if I have a lot of sugar...well, see my post from a couple weeks ago complaining about how all the teas I had that day tasted like cooked tea leaves. It doesn't matter when in the day I have sugar, if I have a session later that day it still affects my palate.

[Ethan Kurland]

. It doesn't matter when in the day I have sugar, if I have a session later that day it still affects my palate.

That's some effect! Surprising.