Yixing

[Mark-S]

@OCTO

Okay, thanks, I'll keep this in mind.

I have seen rather sloppy work from green label era too.

And these works were made of bad clay? Or just not "GradeA"clay? It's difficult to get reliable information about this. I have also read that this F1 hype would be unsubstantiated, because the clays were not better than good modern ones, but at least that I cannot confirm. The clays of my F1 pots look superior to the clay of any good modern teapot (250€-400€ in Germany) I have seen in person so far. The modern clays often look lifeless to me.

[pantry]

Thanks everyone for the tips! Yes, it’s a new pot. I literally just brewed one dark tea session (shu) because I figured I should experiment even if i’m sure I don’t want to devote a nice pot to shu ever. I didn’t expect it to season and stain so quickly!

It’s a bit hard to capture it with my phone camera, but here is one spot. There are a few like this around the pot. The bottom of the pot definitely has a noticeable tan line

I have those Chinese tea towels but i always thought they were for putting over the table to absorb water droplets. Didn’t know it was for wiping the pots...

[Balthazar]

Could you please tell me what he means? I cannot speak Chinese and the translation is weird, so I don't know if it's helpful or not.

In simplified Chinese: 补一下就好了啦

My idiomatic translation: "Just repair[/mend] it and it'll be fine". The 啦 is just a cute final particle...

[Mark-S]

@Balthazar

So not helpful at all. Thanks

[Youzi]

OCTO

Okay, thanks, I'll keep this in mind.

I have seen rather sloppy work from green label era too.

And these works were made of bad clay? Or just not "GradeA"clay? It's difficult to get reliable information about this. I have also read that this F1 hype would be unsubstantiated, because the clays were not better than good modern ones, but at least that I cannot confirm. The clays of my F1 pots look superior to the clay of any good modern teapot (250€-400€ in Germany) I have seen in person so far. The modern clays often look lifeless to me.

Define Good clay. Everyone is throwing around words like "good clay", "Bad clay", but I haven't seen anyone really mention what are their requirements for Good clay. There doesn't seem to be a consensus of "Good Clay" from the community. So at least you should define good clay for yourself, if there isn't a commonly accepted definition yet.

[Youzi]

Thanks everyone for the tips! Yes, it’s a new pot. I literally just brewed one dark tea session (shu) because I figured I should experiment even if i’m sure I don’t want to devote a nice pot to shu ever. I didn’t expect it to season and stain so quickly!

It’s a bit hard to capture it with my phone camera, but here is one spot. There are a few like this around the pot. The bottom of the pot definitely has a noticeable tan line

I have those Chinese tea towels but i always thought they were for putting over the table to absorb water droplets. Didn’t know it was for wiping the pots...

I cannot see what's your problem with this pot here. Where is the pot from, if I might ask?
If it stains at the bottom, then just don't keep it in tea or water, just put it on the towel or a dry part of the table, wipe off the bottom.

[pantry]

@Youzi There is no problem with the pot. It seasons well and fast. I merely asked for advice of how to raise a pot evenly. Bottom tan line cannot be helped. I keep my pot on a tea tray with strainer but ultimately it just doesn't get as much hot liquid as the rest, which I don't mind. Just making conversation

[Youzi]

Youzi There is no problem with the pot. It seasons well and fast. I merely asked for advice of how to raise a pot evenly. Bottom tan line cannot be helped. I keep my pot on a tea tray with strainer but ultimately it just doesn't get as much hot liquid as the rest, which I don't mind. Just making conversation

You don't have to 'Raise' the pot. Just use it and keep it clean. don't shower it with Tea please, or use those brushes or any of those silly stuff. Just see how the natural patina develops.


Good clay and a Good pot should develop Patina really quickly. Patina is one attribute I'd consider as a good indicator of "good clay" and construction and firing.

[Mark-S]

Define Good clay. Everyone is throwing around words like "good clay", "Bad clay", but I haven't seen anyone really mention what are their requirements for Good clay. There doesn't seem to be a consensus of "Good Clay" from the community. So at least you should define good clay for yourself, if there isn't a commonly accepted definition yet.

Maybe that's why nearly everyone says that my teapots are made of bad clay. For me good clay is not mixed with harmful chemicals, it should look & feel nice and be at least a bit porous. Oh, and it should not smell of anything, make good tea and develop a patina after some time. That's my personal preference at least. Many modern or cheap teapots I own don't meet these requirements. They are glossy, not porous at all, feel weird and/or the clay looks dull and lifeless. Hopefully, this tells you exactly what I am looking for. It does not have to be a super rare clay or anything like that.

[DailyTX]

OCTO

Okay, thanks, I'll keep this in mind.

I have seen rather sloppy work from green label era too.

And these works were made of bad clay? Or just not "GradeA"clay? It's difficult to get reliable information about this. I have also read that this F1 hype would be unsubstantiated, because the clays were not better than good modern ones, but at least that I cannot confirm. The clays of my F1 pots look superior to the clay of any good modern teapot (250€-400€ in Germany) I have seen in person so far. The modern clays often look lifeless to me.

Define Good clay. Everyone is throwing around words like "good clay", "Bad clay", but I haven't seen anyone really mention what are their requirements for Good clay. There doesn't seem to be a consensus of "Good Clay" from the community. So at least you should define good clay for yourself, if there isn't a commonly accepted definition yet.

@Youzi +1
For pointing out that “good clay” and “bad clay” are such subjective terms. Over my short course of collection, I also learned that those two terms mean differently in the eyes of a potter and buyer.

[Mark-S]

I posted the export pot in the "Early tea pots II" group now. If anybody is interested in better photos of this pot...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/teapot2 ... 2/?app=fbl

[pantry]

Maybe that's why nearly everyone says that my teapots are made of bad clay. For me good clay is not mixed with harmful chemicals, it should look & feel nice and be at least a bit porous. Oh, and it should not smell of anything, make good tea and develop a patina after some time. That's my personal preference at least. Many modern or cheap teapots I own don't meet these requirements. They are glossy, not porous at all, feel weird and/or the clay looks dull and lifeless. Hopefully, this tells you exactly what I am looking for. It does not have to be a super rare clay or anything like that.

@Mark-S I feel for you. Would love to see more positive energy in tea threads.
I wouldn't discount modern pots completely. The high quality fully handmade ones don't look lifeless, but they won't be cheap.
Like what @OCTO said, it might be a good idea to invest in one confirmed authentic pot with clay that knowledgeable and experienced users considered good quality. You then can compare them for yourself (and share with us your reasonings!) It could very well be that you prefer the cheaper pots you acquired--you be the judge! Even a saying like "quick development of patina" is not helpful, as quick is a relative term. The type of teas being brewed is also a factor. Another reason I avoided discussing the quality of my pot here. Where I got it from is irrelevant. But I welcome advices on how to treat my tea ware, and what tea might be worth testing the pot on.
Speaking of which, @OCTO, I was told that duanni may not be suitable for Oolong, but I will give it a try per your suggestion

[Teachronicles]

For me, good clay comes purely down to its affect on tea. For me, in my experience, with yixing wares ranging from LQER all the way up to modern, including f1 60s, 70s, 80s, and white label, excluding laser label. I have found that most prominent effect I notice is textural, with actually a modern zhuni being the most pronounced and then 60s and 70s hongni. Some zini clays I've found to be close to 60s, 70s, hongni, but the effect being more thickening than smoothing. Based on this, I look at the clays which make very nice tea and inspect their visual characteristics. I think it is general consensus (is that even possible in the yixing world? ) that the clay of the earlier f1 eras were more pure, and higher quality than the later eras. If we believe that, we can look at their texture and physical clay character to establish some sort of idea of what a good clay might look like.

Idk really how to explain it, other than it just takes a certain amount of experience and seeing, handling, and using pots, but you can get an eye for whether a pots clay is good or not. I guess a very easy example is look at F1 white label hongni and 60s hongni, they are visually quite different, and once you have one of both, and brew with them, brewing performance (textural effect by my definition), you can see that white label is clearly inferior.

[Youzi]

For me, good clay comes purely down to its affect on tea. For me, in my experience, with yixing wares ranging from LQER all the way up to modern, including f1 60s, 70s, 80s, and white label, excluding laser label. I have found that most prominent effect I notice is textural, with actually a modern zhuni being the most pronounced and then 60s and 70s hongni. Some zini clays I've found to be close to 60s, 70s, hongni, but the effect being more thickening than smoothing. Based on this, I look at the clays which make very nice tea and inspect their visual characteristics. I think it is general consensus (is that even possible in the yixing world? ) that the clay of the earlier f1 eras were more pure, and higher quality than the later eras. If we believe that, we can look at their texture and physical clay character to establish some sort of idea of what a good clay might look like.

Idk really how to explain it, other than it just takes a certain amount of experience and seeing, handling, and using pots, but you can get an eye for whether a pots clay is good or not. I guess a very easy example is look at F1 white label hongni and 60s hongni, they are visually quite different, and once you have one of both, and brew with them, brewing performance (textural effect by my definition), you can see that white label is clearly inferior.

Basically F1 clay before 1960 were traditionally, manually processed. F1 clays from 1960-1980 were modern processed, but without additives. (except blue, green, etc pots) after 1980 F1 and everyone else started adding additives to the clay, Like Barium Carbonate to various degrees, and also manganese oxide to Zini, and sometimes Iron oxide to Hongni. From then on more and more pots got more and more additives and the processing deviated further from traditional processing. Also, F1 is only Fired once, from what I know, compared to the common 2x firing of modern teapots.

So based on processing there is 3 "era" pre-1960, 1960-1980, post-1980.

[TeaTotaling]

Maybe that's why nearly everyone says that my teapots are made of bad clay. For me good clay is not mixed with harmful chemicals, it should look & feel nice and be at least a bit porous. Oh, and it should not smell of anything, make good tea and develop a patina after some time. That's my personal preference at least. Many modern or cheap teapots I own don't meet these requirements. They are glossy, not porous at all, feel weird and/or the clay looks dull and lifeless. Hopefully, this tells you exactly what I am looking for. It does not have to be a super rare clay or anything like that.

Mark-S I feel for you. Would love to see more positive energy in tea threads.
I wouldn't discount modern pots completely. The high quality fully handmade ones don't look lifeless, but they won't be cheap.
Like what OCTO said, it might be a good idea to invest in one confirmed authentic pot with clay that knowledgeable and experienced users considered good quality. You then can compare them for yourself (and share with us your reasonings!) It could very well be that you prefer the cheaper pots you acquired--you be the judge! Even a saying like "quick development of patina" is not helpful, as quick is a relative term. The type of teas being brewed is also a factor. Another reason I avoided discussing the quality of my pot here. Where I got it from is irrelevant. But I welcome advices on how to treat my tea ware, and what tea might be worth testing the pot on.
Speaking of which, OCTO, I was told that duanni may not be suitable for Oolong, but I will give it a try per your suggestion

@Mark-S For modern pots, if you haven't already, I would check out Chanting Pines. I cannot find better modern Zini. The appearance, feel, and performance speaks for itself. You can find affordable, quality clay.

@pantry I agree, positive energy is life giving, but sometimes the truth hurts. For me, I want the honest truth without regard for my own feelings. I would rather learn the hard way, then continue on in blissful ignorance. Different strokes, for different folks, as they say.

Personally, I find most of the time higher quality items, come with a higher price tag. Of course, this is not always true. There are exceptions, and there are scams. I look for a verifiable source, someone with a track record, who is transparent. Like @OCTO said. In these situations risk is minimized.

@pantry I was curious about @OCTO's recommendation for Oolong in Duanni as well, interesting indeed. From my current experience, with the few times I have used my Duanni for Shou, it is performing extremely well. The pot is already carrying a slightly chocolaty sweet aroma! Simply delightful