The Porcelain Thread

[botlofchaz]

I've done a little bit of perusing on this thread about why one might use a porcelain vessel to brew in, but I am wondering if folks can weigh in in more detail about why you might brew in porcelain over other clay bodies, aside from more obvious reasons such as a tea being new and trying to get the most unadulterated feel for its characteristics. Also, are their particular types of teas that you feel better perform or are better reflected in porcelain vs other clays? I've heard/read about higher end yancha being a good candidate for porcelain and I am wondering why one might choose to brew that in porcelain rather than a different clay. Thanks!

[Bok]

If one can't get bothered to adapt brewing style to clay and tea, or having a lot of different pots, or are not that stable in brewing tea, a porcelain pot may very well be a very good choice. A lot of tea professionals, farmers/wholesalers/shop owners use nothing but porcelain.

Also for a significant majority of people the subtle differences in vessel material may be unnoticable to start with.

I for one would not want to drink out of anything else than a porcelain cup. Working hard enough as it is to make a nice cup with all the different clays and pots, can't have a cup mess with that afterwards. Although as we mentioned before, porcealain is not porcelain, many different properties exist as well...

[Baiyun]

I for one would not want to drink out of anything else than a porcelain cup.

Any recommendations in that space? I've eyed some of the antique cups that keep coming up on EoT but have been hesitant due to uncertainty about the glazes and the fact that my modern porcelain (dehua and some other modern stuff of all shapes) always retires into a cupboard after some time.

Sooner or later I kept going back to double-walled borosilicate glass for the pitcher and cups of various shapes. They just work well, but are clinical. The better quality cups even have branding and silicone plugs at the bottom, so I would enjoy a selection of cups that work well and have more individual character. Does not have to be antique, but I am open to it if they develop taste and fragrance well and are lead free.

[Bok]

Any recommendations in that space?

Not really... I use a range of old cups from different sources/ages and in different materials and shapes, Dehua, Jingdezhen, Chaozhou, Imari etc. Depends on what I am drinking and with whom.

[Baiyun]

Any recommendations in that space?

Not really... I use a range of old cups from different sources/ages and in different materials and shapes, Dehua, Jingdezhen, Chaozhou, Imari etc. Depends on what I am drinking and with whom.

Yeah fair enough, I think I will just have to buy some that sing to me and see if they stick around. I gravitate towards wider bowls.

[Bok]

Yeah fair enough, I think I will just have to buy some that sing to me and see if they stick around. I gravitate towards wider bowls.

Haha sounds like you're looking for company at the tea table

[botlofchaz]

If one can't get bothered to adapt brewing style to clay and tea, or having a lot of different pots, or are not that stable in brewing tea, a porcelain pot may very well be a very good choice. A lot of tea professionals, farmers/wholesalers/shop owners use nothing but porcelain.

Also for a significant majority of people the subtle differences in vessel material may be unnoticable to start with.

I for one would not want to drink out of anything else than a porcelain cup. Working hard enough as it is to make a nice cup with all the different clays and pots, can't have a cup mess with that afterwards. Although as we mentioned before, porcealain is not porcelain, many different properties exist as well...

These sound more like reasons why someone would default to porcelain, not choose porcelain. I guess I am more interested in why someone who has access to multiple clay bodies might actively choose to brew in porcelain over other types of clay pots. The one thing I was thinking of after my last post was that maybe for very high quality teas, there is not much to fault and that choosing a clay like porcelain leaves a tea's qualities most intact and that can be the most desirable outcome. Perhaps I am trying to make something like clay choice objective, when it is all to subjective and individualized to begin with.

[Bok]

it is all to subjective and individualized to begin with.

It is.

On my part, I use porcelain in some cases to sample a new and completetly unknown tea. Not including kinds of tea which I know as a group of tea I drink often.

For the highest quality teas I choose Zhuni. Still can elevate some teas by a notch here and there. Often shape and size and particular kind of Zhuni do play a role.

[Andrew S]

If one can't get bothered to adapt brewing style to clay and tea, or having a lot of different pots, or are not that stable in brewing tea, a porcelain pot may very well be a very good choice. A lot of tea professionals, farmers/wholesalers/shop owners use nothing but porcelain.

Also for a significant majority of people the subtle differences in vessel material may be unnoticable to start with.

I for one would not want to drink out of anything else than a porcelain cup. Working hard enough as it is to make a nice cup with all the different clays and pots, can't have a cup mess with that afterwards. Although as we mentioned before, porcealain is not porcelain, many different properties exist as well...

These sound more like reasons why someone would default to porcelain, not choose porcelain. I guess I am more interested in why someone who has access to multiple clay bodies might actively choose to brew in porcelain over other types of clay pots. The one thing I was thinking of after my last post was that maybe for very high quality teas, there is not much to fault and that choosing a clay like porcelain leaves a tea's qualities most intact and that can be the most desirable outcome. Perhaps I am trying to make something like clay choice objective, when it is all to subjective and individualized to begin with.

I wonder if people who enjoy delicate fragrances might prefer porcelain overall - that's definitely not me, so others may need to say more on that.

And while porcelain may be a 'default or 'control' option, I think that it can also provide consistency, like Bok says. If you play with teapots, perhaps keep cups constant, or if you only have a few brewing vessels, then perhaps play with cups. Or keep everything constant, as you will.

Old cups can be fun (they definitely feel different, at least to me), but like old pots, they're an indulgence.

Andrew

[wave_code]

For sure it is all subjective. For the types of tea I drink I find porcelain often doesn't prove that great even as a neutral assessment tool because its just not the appropriate choice for most of what I drink anyway. So I have a different clay pot I use for those purposes - I know what that pot does, so its no different than knowing what porcelain does/doesn't do from an assessment standpoint. But then if a tea does better in porcelain thats what I go to for, or if I want to draw out different characteristics on different days.

As for cups @Baiyun, I really like and use vintage cups every day, mainly my qing ones. That said, they can/do affect the flavor both due to shape and size, but also the porcelain itself. For example the Imari choko that @LeoFox got recently. Or the cups I posted at the bottom of the last page - I hadn't tried this kind before but the porcelain shockingly muting but also have a really strong softening effect and very different from any of my other cups- I haven't found a tea I prefer them for yet... maybe I won't. I do think vintage porcelain and/or higher end modern porcelain are areas well worth exploring though. Just keep in mind that it may or may not do quite what you expect. Its come up elsewhere on here but for me the mass production porcelain factory stuff from what I guess is the post-ROC through 80s kinda hits a sweet spot in terms of quality/price/availability as a starting point - there are still duds but its not like the stuff is hard to find and I find the thick porcelain has nice properties in terms of heat/flavor and is comfy to use, and one can work their way back in time from there.


Korea seems to be really big on porcelain - anyone have any experience with work from Korean artists? Do you find their porcelain has significant noticeable differences from others? Maybe its jus that the work I've seen tends to have more chunky shapes which I like, but they also look quite thick waller compared to say Dehua pots which is intriguing.

[Balthazar]

I guess I am more interested in why someone who has access to multiple clay bodies might actively choose to brew in porcelain over other types of clay pots. The one thing I was thinking of after my last post was that maybe for very high quality teas, there is not much to fault and that choosing a clay like porcelain leaves a tea's qualities most intact and that can be the most desirable outcome. Perhaps I am trying to make something like clay choice objective, when it is all to subjective and individualized to begin with.

It seems to me that there's an underlying assumption here that porcelain is somehow categorically different than other types of ceramic and stoneware. It's a bit like asking "why would someone with a big collection of puer actively choose to drink hongcha?"

I think porcelain's "Jack of all trades, master of none" reputation is unwarranted. There are teas that really excel when brewed in porcelain, and many that do not. Perhaps it's the ability to reveal weaknesses (or to flip it around: inability to hide them) that has given it a kind of "the test tube of tea vessels" profile.

Of course price is a factor (compared to say aquiring a vintage zhuni pot), but it's not the only one, and like you said there are people with great collections that will still opt for the occasional porcelain session with certain teas for other reasons than just to conduct a dry scientific assessment.

Personally I rarely brew in porcelain, mostly because I think other materials are more suitable for the majority of the teas I'm drinking (with a couple of exceptions). But I'm also not someone in possession of good zhuni so I wouldn't be able to tell if I'd drop the porcelain altogether if I had that option

[teatray]

These sound more like reasons why someone would default to porcelain, not choose porcelain. I guess I am more interested in why someone who has access to multiple clay bodies might actively choose to brew in porcelain over other types of clay pots.

The majority of my pots have little or no exposed clay (6 porcelain, 3 other glazed ceramic, 3 glass). My unglazed pots include 4 Tokoname, 2 Banko, new luni, new zhuni, 90s hongni. I've only recently gotten some Yixing.

There's only one pairing I know for sure that I prefer: sencha in my Tokoname pots (esp. my two fav pots). Most of my unglazed pots (Japanese & Chinese) were on trial with unroasted TW rolled oolongs (some as new, others freshly cleaned with sodium percarbonate, not in a sencha-seasoned state). Only the zhuni & hongi tasted OK to me with such teas. I found all others (incl. my sencha favs) clearly inferior to porcelain, and I doubt I will ever try them again with TW oolongs, at least not these specific pots. They robbed far too many of the finer notes I'm looking for. The zhuni & hongi being OK invites me to study them more, and perhaps I may yet adapt my technique and convert, or enjoy them as an equally nice variation, at least. But, as of now, whenever I just want to make the best possible TW oolong, with all the highlights and nuances, I just grab a small porcelain pot.

My perspective may be of limited value, given my small collection, but when you restrict your question this way ("someone who has access to multiple clay bodies"), I think there's built-in bias in it, since people with large collections are also more likely to prefer such pots or just prefer teas that benefit most from such pots! It could be that the question is too broad and is best discussed in the context of specific teas?

[Baiyun]

Thanks @wave_code, I will keep an eye out, I expect to need a variety of shapes to suit various teas, so I will try to sample the various periods also.

@teatray this may be a bit unorthodox, but for those green gaoshan I really enjoy spending more time with, I start in a porcelain gaiwan for an initial shorter steep to get the high notes while they are at their peak, and then transfer the leaves, before they fully unfurl, into a modern zhuni to subsequently brew hotter for longer and get rich and thick liquor. Otherwise, the later gaiwan steeps seem comparatively flat and under-extracted. Maybe porcelain pot dynamics would be a bit different.

This works well for gaoshan that hold up to anything and no tea police has yet knocked on my door to prevent me from doing my double vessel thing.

[botlofchaz]

Thank you everyone for providing your input. @wave_code thanks for providing the insight that a different type of clay can be a go-to baseline assessment tool over porcelain. Of course it can. I suppose any clay can if you understand what it is doing to a given tea.

Lots to think about. I am 3 years into my tea journey. I have a small collection of pots, always considering adding more. But I think I am still figuring out what I like in tea and it is feeling harder to justify buying new pots when I dont actually know whether I care more about body, aftertaste, etc in specific teas. I think reading responses is making me reflect that the better allocation of money is in new and different teas, and that more of the learning I need right now would come from this rather than experimenting with different pots. Whether I should invest in different clay bodies was not at all the impetus for my original post, but this came front of mind after reading all your responses.

[GailC]

I'm looking for a plain jane porcelain pot, 6-8 oz that won't dribble. Can anyone point me to vendors and maybe suggest what shapes are the least likely to drip?