Yixing

[.m.]

@steanze Thank you a lot.
@pantry You need to explain me the difference between the terms. Please!

[Bok]

For antiques a lot of it is just simply called Zisha – it's always right

[steanze]

steanze Thank you a lot.

Welcome!

[Mark-S]

Has anybody seen this style before?

I only found a similar but not identical teapot in one of the Facebook groups. It does not have these yellow blossoms and the craftsmanship looks a bit more refined.

[Balthazar]

steanze Thank you a lot.

+1, thanks for all the useful info, @steanze

[OCTO]

Has anybody seen this style before?

I only found a similar but not identical teapot in one of the Facebook groups. It does not have these yellow blossoms and the craftsmanship looks a bit more refined.

@Mark-S

It's a common factory design .... ranges from 60s to 80s. As you have mention, there are some that doesn't appear with yellow blossoms is not entirely accurate. They are there, just not highlighted with an additional layer of DuanNi.

Cheers!!

[Mark-S]

@OCTO

Oh, that's nice, thank you. The craftsmanship could be better, but the clay looks good so I'll most likely keep it.

As you have mention, there are some that doesn't appear with yellow blossoms is not entirely accurate. They are there, just not highlighted with an additional layer of DuanNi.

That's what I meant. The blossoms are there but not highlighted.

Different decorations, but this one from eBay looks similar too: https://www.ebay.com/itm/143601966617

[steanze]

OCTO

Oh, that's nice, thank you. The craftsmanship could be better, but the clay looks good so I'll most likely keep it.

As you have mention, there are some that doesn't appear with yellow blossoms is not entirely accurate. They are there, just not highlighted with an additional layer of DuanNi.

That's what I meant. The blossoms are there but not highlighted.

Different decorations, but this one from eBay looks similar too: https://www.ebay.com/itm/143601966617

Looks like there's one branch less on the left side

[Mark-S]

@steanze
Yeah, that‘s true, but I could not find a better fitting pot.

[pantry]

@.m.
From what I've read, Shihuang (石黄) seems to be used to refer to three different things

1) Shihuang Ni is classified as Hongni. Found in the lower layer of nenni from Zhaozhuang*, unexposed to air. Its color turns cinnabar after firing, hence it's also called zhusha ni.

2) Shihuang (pyrite nodules), also found in the interlayer of nenni. Its shape resembles an egg, and is used as a natural colorant due to its high iron content.

3) Shihuang is also an alternate name for the toxic arsenic compound Realgar (xiaonghuang).

I'm not sure why the same name is used for so many different things

* There's XMY shihuangni, etc. these days

[Youzi]

Thank you all for your replies, i keep learning new things. It clarifies a lot, and creates more questions as well.

My questions weren't very well formulated because my thoughts are not. For some clarification what i've meant:
1- By "typical clay" of Kangxi and mid Qing, i was referring to pots like this
http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O2286 ... -mengchen/
http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O101096/vase-unknown/
http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O115611/vase-unknown/
http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O115610/vase-unknown/
http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O1156 ... t-unknown/
Of course, these are not the same clay, but there some rough similarities, as far as one can trust the photos.
2- What i've meant by LQER "zhuni", is that a red clay teapot with a smooth surface and presumably low porosity from that period will be typically labeled as "zhuni" since that is the desirable clay. However, once fired it might sometimes not be obvious what the material was and whether actual zhuni ore was present in a significant amount. Since there are many "zhuni" pots from that time and relatively few "hongni", the question is if/how many of the pots that are labeled "zhuni" could/should be instead labeled "hongni"?

What is schihuang? Is it a soluble form of zhuni? Are there non-soluble forms of zhuni?
What is nenni? Is xiao hongni a part of nenni? Are there other nenni clays?

@steanze
@pantry
@Bok

Maybe it was a Nenni mix? Nenni is quite abundant and was used for common, daily red pottery.
Good article about Nenni: [LINK]

Nenni 嫩泥 is close to the surface, so easy to mine and readily available. Under the Nenni ore layer is usually the Zhuni ore layer. Nenni comes from the wait for it.... Nenni mines, which are Zhaozhuang and Hongwei.

Zhuni 朱泥 comes from the Nenni mines, namely Hongwei and Zhaozhuang, which were used since the ancient times. It breaks up and dissolves in water. Therefore it cannot be weathered, and doesn't need weathering. Usually it was processed by mixing the ore with water, draining it, then letting the water evaporate, which leaves behind the finest particles of zhuni, about 80-120 mesh. This is also a filtration method, so many other particles were filtered out.

Zhushani 朱砂泥 ( or Shihuangni 石黄泥, but not (=/=) Shihuang 石黄) is hard, rock like, similar to Hongni, but it breaks down in water, but not soluble in it. (not sure what it means, maybe that it'll sink to the bottom). Zhushani comes also from Nenni mines, so Zhaozhuang, Hongwei or Chuanbu Chalin.

Yellow hongni 红泥 is hard, rock like and doesn't breakdown or dissolve in water.

Xiao hongni 小红泥 is a substitute of normal hongni, it's also yellow and comes from Fudong or Chuanbu Chalin Mines. It was used throughout history and often mixed with Nenni. This combination was most common with flower pots, vases.

Shihuang 石黄 is a really weird ore. It has an eggshell shape and hard as hell. Needs a really long weathering and processing time, and is not usable in it self. It has really high iron content, and was used as a coloring ore, basically the ancient iron oxide. It could be added to Zhuni or Nenni, to give it a deeper red, red purple color. It also comes from Nenni mines, so Hongwei or Zhaozhuang.

[steanze]

Clockwise from 1pm: Kangxi, late Qing, 1960s, modern...

IMG_20200514_173747059.jpg (167.63 KiB) Viewed 16994 times

[steanze]

Maybe it was a Nenni mix? Nenni is quite abundant and was used for common, daily red pottery.
Good article about Nenni: [LINK]

Nenni 嫩泥 is close to the surface, so easy to mine and readily available. Under the Nenni ore layer is usually the Zhuni ore layer. Nenni comes from the wait for it.... Nenni mines, which are Zhaozhuang and Hongwei.

Zhuni 朱泥 comes from the Nenni mines, namely Hongwei and Zhaozhuang, which were used since the ancient times. It breaks up and dissolves in water. Therefore it cannot be weathered, and doesn't need weathering. Usually it was processed by mixing the ore with water, draining it, then letting the water evaporate, which leaves behind the finest particles of zhuni, about 80-120 mesh. This is also a filtration method, so many other particles were filtered out.

Zhushani 朱砂泥 ( or Shihuangni 石黄泥, but not (=/=) Shihuang 石黄) is hard, rock like, similar to Hongni, but it breaks down in water, but not soluble in it. (not sure what it means, maybe that it'll sink to the bottom). Zhushani comes also from Nenni mines, so Zhaozhuang, Hongwei or Chuanbu Chalin.

Yellow hongni 红泥 is hard, rock like and doesn't breakdown or dissolve in water.

Xiao hongni 小红泥 is a substitute of normal hongni, it's also yellow and comes from Fudong or Chuanbu Chalin Mines. It was used throughout history and often mixed with Nenni. This combination was most common with flower pots, vases.

Shihuang 石黄 is a really weird ore. It has an eggshell shape and hard as hell. Needs a really long weathering and processing time, and is not usable in it self. It has really high iron content, and was used as a coloring ore, basically the ancient iron oxide. It could be added to Zhuni or Nenni, to give it a deeper red, red purple color. It also comes from Nenni mines, so Hongwei or Zhaozhuang.

Nice

[Bok]

Maybe it was a Nenni mix? Nenni is quite abundant and was used for common, daily red pottery.
Good article about Nenni: [LINK]

Nenni 嫩泥 is close to the surface, so easy to mine and readily available. Under the Nenni ore layer is usually the Zhuni ore layer. Nenni comes from the wait for it.... Nenni mines, which are Zhaozhuang and Hongwei.

Zhuni 朱泥 comes from the Nenni mines, namely Hongwei and Zhaozhuang, which were used since the ancient times. It breaks up and dissolves in water. Therefore it cannot be weathered, and doesn't need weathering. Usually it was processed by mixing the ore with water, draining it, then letting the water evaporate, which leaves behind the finest particles of zhuni, about 80-120 mesh. This is also a filtration method, so many other particles were filtered out.

Zhushani 朱砂泥 ( or Shihuangni 石黄泥, but not (=/=) Shihuang 石黄) is hard, rock like, similar to Hongni, but it breaks down in water, but not soluble in it. (not sure what it means, maybe that it'll sink to the bottom). Zhushani comes also from Nenni mines, so Zhaozhuang, Hongwei or Chuanbu Chalin.

Yellow hongni 红泥 is hard, rock like and doesn't breakdown or dissolve in water.

Xiao hongni 小红泥 is a substitute of normal hongni, it's also yellow and comes from Fudong or Chuanbu Chalin Mines. It was used throughout history and often mixed with Nenni. This combination was most common with flower pots, vases.

Shihuang 石黄 is a really weird ore. It has an eggshell shape and hard as hell. Needs a really long weathering and processing time, and is not usable in it self. It has really high iron content, and was used as a coloring ore, basically the ancient iron oxide. It could be added to Zhuni or Nenni, to give it a deeper red, red purple color. It also comes from Nenni mines, so Hongwei or Zhaozhuang.

Nice

+1

[.m.]

Thank you @pantry and @Youzi for explaining the subject. Lot of the information out there is completely confusing and often contradictory. Nothing i've found expressed it with such a clarity as your post.

@steanze Wow, really nice pots! Very interesting to see them side by side like this.