The (Western) Yixing market

[gatmcm]

Very nice

[Brent D]

I have completely stepped away from buying vintage yixing. The prices have gotten out of control here in the USA. Very few are willing to spend over $1000 USD on a tea pot. I once bought a late 60s hongni for $275. I feel thats reasonable. I dont think I could find that today. I used to spend hours and hours researching and looking for pots. Got ripped off a few times. Tired of pulling my hair out.

[swordofmytriumph]

@Bok how thin walled should it be? I assume this is because you don’t want the leaves to be cooked to death right? Lol oolong is my jam, I’m best at steeping oolong. It’s way more forgiving than other teas IMO. Anyway, Essence of tea did say it would be good for brewing oolong. It’s a 200 ml pot, FYI.

And yeah, I know it will take a while for a real difference to show. Oh well, I’m patient.

I’m already planning my next purchase lol. I hear good things about chawang shop and tea masters, amd I need a lot for my sheng...

[Bok]

@swordofmytriumph as thin as you can! 2-3mm will ideal. Which is why most go for either porcelain, Zhuni for Gaoshan. If you are willing to spend the money, hongni from the 60-70s is another good choice.

That said my best pots for Gaoshan have become certain Japanese clay pots. Others pale in comparison.

[Bok]

I once bought a late 60s hongni for $275. I feel thats reasonable.

Those were the days, now that price might still be possible in Asia, but not in the West, unless you get lucky on a flea market or where the seller has no clue about Yixing.
My 60s Biandeng I got recently was already more than that...

If you ever consider re-entering the dark side, ask your peers here before you buy, to avoid getting burned! We'll help you out

[OCTO]

If you ever consider re-entering the dark side, ask your peers here before you buy, to avoid getting burned! We'll help you out

He surely won't get burned... but might end up burning more 'greens'... hahahaha....

[swordofmytriumph]

Hm, well it hasn't arrived yet, so we'll see how thin it is. Maybe if it's too thick I'll use it for my roasted oolong instead. You think it would be good for roasted? ahahah so much to learn! Also, what kind would be good for sheng? I was planning to get a Zini pot, I'm looking seriously at the zini pot they're selling on song tea's website...my goal is to tone down some of the bitter/astringent notes. Is thicker or thinner walls good for young sheng?

[.m.]

Before you just had to mention F1 and the pot was gone in seconds.
I blame it on EoT who started the whole thing with a large affordable stock of genuine F1. Others jumped on the wagon and now these pots are relatively easy to find. Some vendors with sound reputation, others with a bit more dodgy stock.

As a tea drinker i need to say that "blame" is wrong expression here, even if i am sure you didn't mean it in that way, and i apologize to be nitpicking. Personally i am very grateful that when a couple years ago when EoT got hands on a large stock of white label hongni shuipings they've offered them for a price that was about half of what they were going on in the western market. For me it speaks a lot about their integrity; they probably made some profit, that is what they live out of, but they didnt try to push the price to a maximum. One can call that a business strategy, but it is one that i like. I also dont think that their current stock is that affordable. Sure, those pots are worth their price, but they are a serious investition.
My impression is that the price of many F1 pots almost doubled in the last 5 years, so i really hope that it is not going to rise that much anymore.

[OCTO]

Hm, well it hasn't arrived yet, so we'll see how thin it is. Maybe if it's too thick I'll use it for my roasted oolong instead. You think it would be good for roasted? ahahah so much to learn! Also, what kind would be good for sheng? I was planning to get a Zini pot, I'm looking seriously at the zini pot they're selling on song tea's website...my goal is to tone down some of the bitter/astringent notes. Is thicker or thinner walls good for young sheng?

@swordofmytriumph

Have a plain white GaiWan ready in hand. Use this as a guide to benchmark against all the teapots you buy. Always keep in mind, clay in general is always porous!! Every pot will absorb, mute, shave off some aroma when new and unused.... one way or another. This supports what @Bok said in an earlier post. So a GaiWan will be a good control agent to benchmark how much has been taken off by the teapot. It will improve with constant use.

Over time and after you have had your fair share of mishaps, pairings disasters and double guessing your decisions, you will come to slowly identify your personal preferences and your pots will automatically gear towards your preference. There is no right or wrong.... a general rule of thumb is you will have Yixing that enhances your tea, you will have Yixing that take off unwanted nuances from your tea. Both will point towards one common direction.... your preferred taste profile.

It’s going to be heck of a journey! Yixing will take you to places you have never gone before and would never go. So.... Fasten your seatbelt, buckle up your helmet, check your bearings, switch off your GPS and enjoy the journey!!

If all seems dark and gloomy, shout out BOK!! Your angel of clay will appear to shed some light!!

Cheers!!!

[swordofmytriumph]

Lol angel of clay...

I'll play around with it some. If I don't like what it does to the green oolongs, at least it's easy to move to from that to a darker tea like a roasted oolong rather than the other way around.

Also, I was wondering, what are your thoughts on a porcelain gaiwan vs a porcelain teapot? Currently I use a porcelain teapot that I like much better than my gaiwan (it's tiny and adorable). Though I have found that I have more control of the steep time with a gaiwan vs a teapot, so there is that.

Out of curiosity, clay types I've read about tend to do different things? Like zini is more porus than hongni, etc, and that a more porous pot will absorb more of the flavors/notes of the tea?

I'm nearly beside myself waiting for my pot to arrive lol, patience is a virtue as my grandma always says. Guess I'm not very virtuous! May the journey commence!!

[OCTO]

Also, I was wondering, what are your thoughts on a porcelain gaiwan vs a porcelain teapot? Currently I use a porcelain teapot that I like much better than my gaiwan (it's tiny and adorable). Though I have found that I have more control of the steep time with a gaiwan vs a teapot, so there is that.

Your observation is spot on. Use which ever that gives you more satisfaction that you have brewed your tea correctly. I have both and I use them on rotation based on my mood and itchy fingers on that day.

Out of curiosity, clay types I've read about tend to do different things? Like zini is more porus than hongni, etc, and that a more porous pot will absorb more of the flavors/notes of the tea?

Don’t worry about porosity at this juncture. You are right to say each clay does different things to the tea brewed in them. There are way too many factors directly affecting the porosity of the teapot and all these factors are beyond our control (as end users). Focus on identifying your taste preference and profile. HongNi is a good clay to start your journey. If you are already feeling the itch and can’t resist scratching.... hunt for a good ZiSha teapot. Both HongNi and ZiSha have contrasting characteristics when it comes to brewing tea with them. It will make it easier for you to identify the taste profiles coming from these two clays. Again... keep going back to you white porcelain GaiWan as a benchmark and reference point.

my humble 2cents.

Cheers!!

[swordofmytriumph]

Thank you! And yes, lol I'm already feeling the itch. I'm probably getting tea money for Christmas, and we know where that's gonna go...

[Bok]

As a tea drinker i need to say that "blame" is wrong expression here, even if i am sure you didn't mean it in that way, and i apologize to be nitpicking. Personally i am very grateful that when a couple years ago when EoT got hands on a large stock of white label hongni shuipings they've offered them for a price that was about half of what they were going on in the western market. For me it speaks a lot about their integrity; they probably made some profit, that is what they live out of, but they didnt try to push the price to a maximum. One can call that a business strategy, but it is one that i like. I also dont think that their current stock is that affordable. Sure, those pots are worth their price, but they are a serious investition.
My impression is that the price of many F1 pots almost doubled in the last 5 years, so i really hope that it is not going to rise that much anymore.

As in many things demand from China is driving the price up, but I dare say the interest in Asia for these pots does normally not start before 70s, going older, unless we are talking artist teapots.

I do think they prices will likely not go lower, there is a finite amount of them and over time a few will break or otherwise exit the circuit. I do however think and it is what others mentioned, that the Western market is not prepared to pay what the good stuffs market price is. The magic number seems to be around 600-700$ upwards, where the will to invest seems to get feeble

Personally, I found that is where the fun actually starts, as this kind of level of pot can really make a difference. Still on the beginning of that journey, but it is intoxicating! I am sure those who have held genuine old and special pots in their hands can relate.

The EoT pots are still quite affordable for what they are. The recent selection are mostly special order pots which have better clay and workmanship, so naturally they should be more expensive than off the rack standard pots. In the end new quality Japanese pots do also rarely go for less than 200$.

[Chadrinkincat]

I’m definitely one of those collectors that struggles to accept the high prices for ROC and 60-70’s pots. Id love to focus my collecting on these periods eventually. Currently my selection of F1 consist of

60-70’s 24%
Green 56%
80-90’s 20%

I think green label era pots are good enough for tea drinking but not as collectable unless it‘s a special design/clay/maker. Half my collection is from this period and definitely see the most use.

1987-97 are my least favorite eras for using and collecting. I own 5 from this period but none are standard shapes. Shui-ping and other simple designs just look goofy imho so interest me less.

[Chadrinkincat]

I have completely stepped away from buying vintage yixing. The prices have gotten out of control here in the USA. Very few are willing to spend over $1000 USD on a tea pot. I once bought a late 60s hongni for $275. I feel thats reasonable. I dont think I could find that today. I used to spend hours and hours researching and looking for pots. Got ripped off a few times. Tired of pulling my hair out.

You should get back into vintage yixing. You can still find great deals on pots but that usually requires knowing more than the person selling it. Flea market, vintage shops, thrift, eBay and estate sales are good for this type of buying.

The best way to significantly lower your risk of getting ripped off is to study the F1 designs your interested in and only buying things you know. I have tons of pots bookmarked on FB so that when I spot something of interest I can easily compare it to legit examples. I take a pass on anything I’m not reasonably certain is real. It’s not a 100% fool proof strategy but it’s still much better than relying on the knowledge and honesty of whoever your buying from.