Question on stockpiled clay

[steanze]

Thanks for the great info!

Regarding point two, someone had told me all modern yixing clay has additives, but I don't think that's true, correct?

You are welcome! Correct, not all modern Yixing has additives. But the vast majority does, and I would have a very hard time believing that a clay does not have additives unless it has been tested. Because I know of cases of people being told that the clay did not have additives, who then got it tested and found out that it did.

[steanze]

http://www.zishaartgallery.com/product/ ... 5%a3%b6-2/

It seems kind of ornate given the price as I would have expected it to cost more.

It is all about how refined (and artistic, or historically significant) the teapot is. Making an ornate teapot is not so hard, especially when using a mold. Making a teapot that is ornate and refined is hard, and that will be expensive. But making a teapot that has simple lines and is refined can be just as hard.

When starting out, I think it is actually easier to tell if a plain teapot is well made or not, than if an ornate teapot is well made or not. Plain teapots are a better training ground for the eye... then one can start applying those skills to discern the level of refinement of ornate pots.

[Tyler]

Yeah I would too

Both websites say similar things about how their sourcing of clay and both have nice looking teapots. What exactly are you seeing that makes you pick one or the other?

The EoT pots are a bit cheaper, other than that I can't really say anything really explicit. I don't think M&L is a bad choice if you want a certain shape or color pot

Not a teapot person but I wouldn't infer too much about the quality of the clay just because it's from huanglongshan (and there's also the possibility that it's not even from there and someone somewhere along the line said that to make it sound more desirable)

I think the EoT and M&L pots are generally considered pretty decent, if you want a factory pot you can probably get one around the same price range

Factory pots seem to go for around 3x the price of EoT and M&L pots, so I don't know that I'd consider it the same price range. But actually I was looking at some F1 pots anyways. What do you make of the following?

http://www.zishaartgallery.com/product/ ... 5%a3%b6-2/

It seems kind of ornate given the price as I would have expected it to cost more.

A pot from the 60's is going to be much more, I was thinking like green label or white label, but it would depend on what kind of shape / size pot you want

[steanze]

http://www.zishaartgallery.com/product/ ... 5%a3%b6-2/

It seems kind of ornate given the price as I would have expected it to cost more.

It is all about how refined (and artistic, or historically significant) the teapot is.

For example, compare the one you linked to the example below to study the differences...

yungen_dragon.jpg (187.26 KiB) Viewed 5831 times

(this is not a criticism of the vendor by the way, the one in this pic would be easily over $10000 usd if it were for sale).

On the topic of dragons, I personally prefer dragon eggs to dragon-fish

[Tyler]

Regarding point two, someone had told me all modern yixing clay has additives, but I don't think that's true, correct?

There's a vendor mentioned in another thread that tests the clays they use for certain additives, if that's your main concern you might be interested

Facebook vendor: Chemical Free Purple Clay Exchange
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2543

(TeasWeLike also offers the same testing on their commissioned pots)

[Bok]

Both websites say similar things about how their sourcing of clay and both have nice looking teapots. What exactly are you seeing that makes you pick one or the other?

Less what I see, more what I have as background information... Western tea world is relatively small

[.m.]

Factory pots seem to go for around 3x the price of EoT and M&L pots, so I don't know that I'd consider it the same price range. But actually I was looking at some F1 pots anyways. What do you make of the following?

http://www.zishaartgallery.com/product/ ... 5%a3%b6-2/

It seems kind of ornate given the price as I would have expected it to cost more.

I see no reason why a generic cultural revolution pot should cost this much. IMO the prices at ZAG are about 2 to 3x overprized, but of course they are pretty much the only store specialized in this stuff and they are based in SG so that kind of explains it.

[Bok]

Factory pots seem to go for around 3x the price of EoT and M&L pots, so I don't know that I'd consider it the same price range. But actually I was looking at some F1 pots anyways. What do you make of the following?

http://www.zishaartgallery.com/product/ ... 5%a3%b6-2/

It seems kind of ornate given the price as I would have expected it to cost more.

I see no reason why a generic cultural revolution pot should cost this much. IMO the prices at ZAG are about 2 to 3x overprized, but of course they are pretty much the only store specialized in this stuff and they are based in SG so that kind of explains it.

Well, that particular pot is often damaged and not much is available from the 60s period, so I would call it quite rare to begin with. Same design from later periods is much more common. I'd say in general the early factory stuff is unreasonably high priced compared to some much older stuff.

[wave_code]

2. In order to save time and costs, chemical additives are used to skip some labor intensive clay processing steps. For example, one issue that can come up in Yixing teapot production is that some salts can come to the surface (efflorescence), causing some marks that might not be aesthetically appealing. Traditionally, clay was manually processed to prevent efflorescence from occurring, but this is a time consuming process. These days, usually potters add barium oxide, that binds to the salts, making it possible to avoid the manual processing steps. However, this has an impact on the final product - in my experience Yixing clay with added barium has colors that look a bit more saturated and looks a bit glossier, and it does not develop patina as well as clay processed with traditional methods.

Is this the effect I have seen on some older pots where individual grain like indentations are made that I have seen called 'jumping sand' (translated), or is that something else?

[steanze]

2. In order to save time and costs, chemical additives are used to skip some labor intensive clay processing steps. For example, one issue that can come up in Yixing teapot production is that some salts can come to the surface (efflorescence), causing some marks that might not be aesthetically appealing. Traditionally, clay was manually processed to prevent efflorescence from occurring, but this is a time consuming process. These days, usually potters add barium oxide, that binds to the salts, making it possible to avoid the manual processing steps. However, this has an impact on the final product - in my experience Yixing clay with added barium has colors that look a bit more saturated and looks a bit glossier, and it does not develop patina as well as clay processed with traditional methods.

Is this the effect I have seen on some older pots where individual grain like indentations are made that I have seen called 'jumping sand' (translated), or is that something else?

I think you are referring to "tiao sha" - the addition of specks of another clay (usually duanni added to a zini base). Efflorescence is something else, it looks like a darker/greyish spot, it is usually not spread regularly throughout the pot but concentrated in one or a few locations.

[wave_code]

no, not what I meant, but it sounds like this is a different effect anyway. what I mean is when it looks almost as though you had removed a grain or two of sand or mineral from the clay once it was fired or while it was vitirfying, like a little pock mark

[steanze]

no, not what I meant, but it sounds like this is a different effect anyway. what I mean is when it looks almost as though you had removed a grain or two of sand or mineral from the clay once it was fired or while it was vitirfying, like a little pock mark

Ah, now I understand what you meant, thanks! No, it's not that, it looks like a change in color but there isn't usually a little hole.

[chaeric]

Regarding point two, someone had told me all modern yixing clay has additives, but I don't think that's true, correct?

There's a vendor mentioned in another thread that tests the clays they use for certain additives, if that's your main concern you might be interested

Facebook vendor: Chemical Free Purple Clay Exchange
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2543

(TeasWeLike also offers the same testing on their commissioned pots)

Oh cool they even sell fully handmade teapots. It would be cool to have stuff tested if was local but a bit "out of my way" for me.

Are they based in Taiwan? They list the prices in Taiwan dollars.

[chaeric]

Factory pots seem to go for around 3x the price of EoT and M&L pots, so I don't know that I'd consider it the same price range. But actually I was looking at some F1 pots anyways. What do you make of the following?

http://www.zishaartgallery.com/product/ ... 5%a3%b6-2/

It seems kind of ornate given the price as I would have expected it to cost more.

I see no reason why a generic cultural revolution pot should cost this much. IMO the prices at ZAG are about 2 to 3x overprized, but of course they are pretty much the only store specialized in this stuff and they are based in SG so that kind of explains it.

Seems to be about the same price as on MoodyGuy's website. He has a Black Apple Zini for $589 and ZAG has a "perfect" condition one for $500.

[Tyler]

Are they based in Taiwan? They list the prices in Taiwan dollars.

Yes

Seems to be about the same price as on MoodyGuy's website. He has a Black Apple Zini for $589 and ZAG has a "perfect" condition one for $500.

His prices are also pretty high