Lapsang Souchong

[agedpuerh.com]

When I talk with people about Lapsang, I try to distinguish quite strictly among these teas:

- Lapsang Souchong for me means traditionally "old style" smoked red tea from cai cha (aka local native tea bushes) from Tong Mu

- Chi Gan for me is unsmoked Lapsang (so generally unsmoked cai cha red tea from Tong Mu)

- If tea is made from some "oolong" tea varietal (huang mei gui, huang jin gui) or from some of Fu Yun tea varietal (Fu Yun 6 for example . BTW many Jin Jun Mei on market is from Fu Yun, what is definitely problem in my eyes, because the taste of Fuyun and the taste of cai cha is very very different), usually in Ban Yan area, or outside Wuyi, I believe the name should reflect it. I have seen some nice medium grade red teas from "oolong cultivars" made from bigger leaves with kind of yancha appearance, but there are realy good ones from very first pick of tips plus two leaves...

Here are pics of really high end Lapsang Souchong (made from very old and wild grown cai cha bushes, very oldschool traditionally smoked) and really high end Huang Mei Gui Red Tea (made in Zhanyan area from wild grown bushes):

[GaoShan]

Same way you'd distinguish between a mediocre rougui and a good rougui, or a mediocre longjing and a good longjing. You don't do that with "information" but rather with direct knowledge and experience of what constitutes good tea, and experiencing the tea itself.

This is not a matter of knowing the specific cultivar or not. There are plenty of huangmeigui aka No. 506 that's mediocre in quality and/or processing, and some that are not.

I guess as in many other things, there are no shortcuts. When I buy Taiwanese oolong, the cultivar does often make a difference, and I tend to prefer Qing Xin over Jin Xuan or Cui Yu. Buying Chinese tea seems to be much more complicated. Still, there's plenty of mediocre Qing Xin out there, so relying on the vendor's reputation and my own limited experience is probably the way to go.

[Ethan Kurland]

I guess as in many other things, there are no shortcuts.

The greatest shortcut is a vendor who understands what a particular customer wants to taste. Getting to that situation is not easy; many conversations may be required. E.g., I don't want what I call rough edges when I taste tea. "Bitterness" is not the perfect word, there is no perfect word for what I don't want because there are flavors that give depth & body that may be thought of as bitter by some but aren't by others. More than a few lines in an email may be required. (In fact I spent 3 hours a day for 8 days w/ the source for most of my teas to get understood.)

Even a ? much simpler than "What do you want to taste?" or "What do you want to feel?" (from a tea) is hard to answer. E.g., Lishan & Foushoushan of Spring 2021 are essentially the same. Both in my opinion would give a particular drinker what he wants. The FSS is better but how is it better (I can't really say) & is it significantly better, I can't say (if one can say it is better is therefore significantly better?).

Cheers

[GaoShan]

I guess as in many other things, there are no shortcuts.

The greatest shortcut is a vendor who understands what a particular customer wants to taste. Getting to that situation is not easy; many conversations may be required. E.g., I don't want what I call rough edges when I taste tea. "Bitterness" is not the perfect word, there is no perfect word for what I don't want because there are flavors that give depth & body that may be thought of as bitter by some but aren't by others. More than a few lines in an email may be required. (In fact I spent 3 hours a day for 8 days w/ the source for most of my teas to get understood.)

Even a ? much simpler than "What do you want to taste?" or "What do you want to feel?" (from a tea) is hard to answer. E.g., Lishan & Foushoushan of Spring 2021 are essentially the same. Both in my opinion would give a particular drinker what he wants. The FSS is better but how is it better (I can't really say) & is it significantly better, I can't say (if one can say it is better is therefore significantly better?).

Cheers

Yes, finding such a vendor is the challenge, especially when you won't be buying enough of a particular tea for them to be motivated to source it for you. Also, as you said, articulating what you want can be tough. I like what I call "fruity" oolongs without much bitterness or spinachy flavour. Of the three oolongs from you I've tasted, all were "smooth" and without bitterness, but the Longfengxia is the only one I'd describe as really fruity. I'm not sure if that's understandable to others or if they also taste what I'm tasting (i.e., coconut, stonefruit, tropical fruit).

[Ethan Kurland]

... articulating what you want can be tough. I like what I call "fruity" oolongs without much bitterness or spinachy flavour. Of the three oolongs from you I've tasted, all were "smooth" and without bitterness, but the Longfengxia is the only one I'd describe as really fruity. I'm not sure if that's understandable to others or if they also taste what I'm tasting (i.e., coconut, stonefruit, tropical fruit).

That helps me & interests me. I've failed to identify how specific gaoshan are different from one another. I think you are correct about the Longengxia being fruity (whether it is the only fruity one or more fruity, I don't know right now). I often "sense" (for lack of the perfect word) flavors as part of a package, not really tasting them individually. I definitely would never think "Oh, that's coconut" but maybe it is there from the LFX.
Spinachy flavor used to bother me. Now I like it even strong spinachy, if it is not bitter. (As people get older they eat asparacus etc. that when young they did not eat.)
I stopped selling Dayuling. I said to myself because it has changed once or twice over time too much. It might be also because I described it so badly. Now I wonder if its lack of fruitiness or other counterbalancing flavors, make it seem not so special to some drinkers. I feel & taste minerals more when drinking DYL now. (Again something I could only take a hint of, when I was younger; & now I enjoy this a lot.)
Your palate & description of flavors are more accurate than mine, Gaoshan.

[blkgreymon]

I had my first taste of smoked Lapsang Souchong from the Steeping room. Not a very pleasant experience. The smokiness was overpowering a lot of the notes of the tea. It reminded me too much of smoked fish I used to eat in the Philippines... I'm gonna try it again when I feel like it but yeah not my cup of tea

EDIT: I retried this at home with better water and heat and it tastes less smokey now. I quite enjoy it!

[GaoShan]

That helps me & interests me. I've failed to identify how specific gaoshan are different from one another. I think you are correct about the Longengxia being fruity (whether it is the only fruity one or more fruity, I don't know right now). I often "sense" (for lack of the perfect word) flavors as part of a package, not really tasting them individually. I definitely would never think "Oh, that's coconut" but maybe it is there from the LFX.
Spinachy flavor used to bother me. Now I like it even strong spinachy, if it is not bitter. (As people get older they eat asparacus etc. that when young they did not eat.)
I stopped selling Dayuling. I said to myself because it has changed once or twice over time too much. It might be also because I described it so badly. Now I wonder if its lack of fruitiness or other counterbalancing flavors, make it seem not so special to some drinkers. I feel & taste minerals more when drinking DYL now. (Again something I could only take a hint of, when I was younger; & now I enjoy this a lot.)
Your palate & description of flavors are more accurate than mine, Gaoshan.

I do try to break teas down into individual flavours, partly because I write tasting notes on Steepster and need to convey my impressions to others, and partly because I hope that by isolating flavours I like, I can look for them again in similar teas. However, I'm not a supertaster and these flavours may not always be accurate. I haven't tried your DYL, so can't comment on whether it's fruity. I'm sort of coming around to the spinachy flavour when it's not associated with bitterness and/or astringency, as it often is in lower-quality gaoshan.

[Estelle Q]

Actually, that depends on the craft, the traditional lapsang souchong was first created in 1568, Tongmu Village, Wuyi Mountain, Fujian Province. It is the earliest black tea in the world and has a history of more than 400 years. It was produced in the 565 square kilometers of the Wuyi Mountain National Nature Reserve centered around Tongmuguan, Made in a century-old tea-making greenhouse. Has natural pine smoke aroma and cinnamon sweetness.
After, the Innovated Non-Smoked Lapsang Souchong was born, the final smoking and roasting process is omitted, which makes the taste of clear drink more acceptable, but still has the sweet fragrance of longan.
Besides, Chi Gan belongs to the advanced Lapsang Soup. Before the born of Jin Junmei, the Chi Gan of Tongmu was more preferred by people. Now Jin Junmei is the representative of innovative non-smoked lapsong Souchong.

[GaoShan]

A couple weeks ago, I received four unsmoked lapsangs from Daxue Jiadao: 50 g each of their Da and Xiao Chigan and 8 g each of their Laocong Taoke and Diaoqiao. Does anyone have steeping parameters that might help make the most of these teas? I'm planning to tackle one of the 50 g packs first to allow for a bit more experimentation. I usually steep my lapsangs for short periods of time in 195F water, but am open to other suggestions.

[LeoFox]

A couple weeks ago, I received four unsmoked lapsangs from Daxue Jiadao: 50 g each of their Da and Xiao Chigan and 8 g each of their Laocong Taoke and Diaoqiao. Does anyone have steeping parameters that might help make the most of these teas? I'm planning to tackle one of the 50 g packs first to allow for a bit more experimentation. I usually steep my lapsangs for short periods of time in 195F water, but am open to other suggestions.

For red, I tend to stick with 5-6g/100 ml
Boiling water
15s - 20s, 20s - 25s, 25s-30s, 40s-50s, 1 min-1min10s, etc

For these teas, keep the water very hot and use low tds water.


I use a f1 hongni pot

[GaoShan]

A couple weeks ago, I received four unsmoked lapsangs from Daxue Jiadao: 50 g each of their Da and Xiao Chigan and 8 g each of their Laocong Taoke and Diaoqiao. Does anyone have steeping parameters that might help make the most of these teas? I'm planning to tackle one of the 50 g packs first to allow for a bit more experimentation. I usually steep my lapsangs for short periods of time in 195F water, but am open to other suggestions.

For red, I tend to stick with 5-6g/100 ml
Boiling water
15s - 20s, 20s - 25s, 25s-30s, 40s-50s, 1 min-1min10s, etc

For these teas, keep the water very hot and use low tds water.


I use a f1 hongni pot

Thanks! My only Hongni pot is for oolongs, so I'll have to stick with porcelain. I'll use your steeping parameters and see what I think!

Also, how expensive is it to test the TDS of my water? Will bottled water do the trick?

[RayClem]

Here in the States you can often find water quality parameters for local water systems posted online. I do not know if that is the case where you live.

TDS meters are not all that expensive as they only thing they do is measure the conductivity of the water. Since you are in Canada, check out some of these options on Amazon.ca.



I use water purified by reverse osmosis for brewing tea. I have my own RO system, but many grocery and hardware stores sell RO purified water in gallon and 5-gallon jugs. I suspect some brands of "distilled" water are purified by RO rather than steam distillation. For tea brewing, either would be fine.

Many brands of bottled water are simply tap water purified by reverse osmosis with some minerals added back for flavor. Depending upon what is added, this might be good of bad for your tea. Read the label carefully before buying.

[filipes]

Traditionally smoked Lapsang souchong from semiwild old bushes growing in Tong Mu.
The leaves are big, dark brown/green, with complex smoke and wood aroma. The tea, no words can really capture, like describing the beauty of a painting.. you just have to see it. The smokiness is gone, what remained is like liquid gold, subtle sweetness that’s “3-dimensional” I would say with deeper tones of old forest.

[Ethan Kurland]

filipes,

fWelcome to the forum. So, do you think the leaves would give you the same, if they had not been smoked, even though you cannot taste the smokiness directly?

I ask because I have enjoyed lightly roasted teas that do not allow a drinker to directly taste the roasting, but definitely helped make the tea great.

[filipes]

Hi Ethan, actually the difference is clear, what’s gone is the harsher smoky notes that dissipated over months.. it’s amazing that this necessity of drying the tea in pine smoke (thanks to rainy weather) has become an art.. the unsmoked version of the tea reminds me of forest in a soft rain, old trees or old wooden furniture, and subtle sweetness like distant autumn sun.. the quality that comes from the smoking process, which is something like the “3-dimensional” sweetness, pine smoke/resin aroma, just blends in naturally with the tea.. when the base tea is already top, the smoking can only make it different, not really better I guess.. but it’s so delicious:) ..but as I read somewhere, traditional smoking is becoming a rarity due to low demand..