Yixing

[Bok]

I assume that it's a late 80s or so F1.

At least is says Factory one on it. Shipiao?

[Andrew S]

Yes. Around 40 to 50mL I think.

But I might need better light now for a photo of the whole pot. Let me see and report back...

I did recognise the F1 characters, so I guess my Mandarin is improving...

Andrew

[Andrew S]

Not the best photo.

Just curious about that kind of inscription, which I understand to be a 'test' of some sort.

Andrew

[DailyTX]

Not the best photo.

Just curious about that kind of inscription, which I understand to be a 'test' of some sort.

Andrew

First line is Factory 1 student class
Bottom line is mentored by 徐汉棠

If this resource is accurate, 徐汉棠 was teaching in Factory 2
https://baike.baidu.com/item/徐汉棠

[Andrew S]

@DailyTX: thank you. The F2 reference seems to me at least to suggest that it was no earlier than late 80s...

I'm curious about how common such pot inscriptions were. I haven't seen them much. I recall something similar somewhere (perhaps old Hou De posts) but not much else.

This little pot used to serve me for yancha and old wulong, but it's been gathering dust for a while.

Andrew

[DailyTX]

DailyTX: thank you. The F2 reference seems to me at least to suggest that it was no earlier than late 80s...

I'm curious about how common such pot inscriptions were. I haven't seen them much. I recall something similar somewhere (perhaps old Hou De posts) but not much else.

This little pot used to serve me for yancha and old wulong, but it's been gathering dust for a while.

Andrew

Here is an article about it. If it’s accurate, the pot you have is to fool buyers thinking it’s from Factory era
https://m.sohu.com/a/340142956_291721/?pvid=000115_3w_a

I owned a tuition pot that stamped with Factory 2 in Chinese while the chop is a F1 worker. I think it’s also try to fool buyers.

[Bok]

DailyTX: thank you. The F2 reference seems to me at least to suggest that it was no earlier than late 80s...

I'm curious about how common such pot inscriptions were. I haven't seen them much. I recall something similar somewhere (perhaps old Hou De posts) but not much else.

This little pot used to serve me for yancha and old wulong, but it's been gathering dust for a while.

Andrew

Here is an article about it. If it’s accurate, the pot you have is to fool buyers thinking it’s from Factory era
https://m.sohu.com/a/340142956_291721/?pvid=000115_3w_a

I owned a tuition pot that stamped with Factory 2 in Chinese while the chop is a F1 worker. I think it’s also try to fool buyers.

Interesting!

Or could it be that it is some sort of examination pot? To mark that this is apprentice work.

[Andrew S]

There's a part of me that's glad that I wasn't fooled a decade ago, even if only because I had no idea one way or another. I certainly didn't pay much for it, even back then... Thank you.

Andrew

[Andrew S]

@Bok: "examination pot" is the phrase that I had in mind. Thanks.

But I wasn't sure who would care in hte late 80s or afterwards about that kind of thing.

Now... over to everyone else's wiser minds...

Andrew

[Mark-S]

In my experience, most pots with a lot of words on the bottom are from 2000 and after. There are also some pots with the Fangyuan mark. No idea if they are genuine.

[Balthazar]

My first thought when I saw it was that it reminded me of some of the "訂製壺" I've seen popping up in Taiwanese auction groups (typically from the 80s or 90s). From what I understand, lots of these were made for Taiwanese businesses starting in the 80s, and they were sometimes made by factory workers "on the side". There was an informative post about these from an admin from one of the groups (basically warning members not not take for granted that held the same standard as normal F1 productions) a month or so ago, but I can't find it now.

Just a thought that came to mind, could be (and probably is) wrong.

[Mark-S]

@Balthazar

I'm generally skeptical about those custom made F1 pots. Yes, they are also sold by "trusted" sellers... but it's very hard to prove if they are genuine or not.

[Balthazar]

Yup, that's also one of the reasons why there's not much interest in them.

[wave_code]

Timeline wise, I'm actually kind of curious about the history of fakes here... Defining what is in fact a fake can be tough in areas of craftsmanship in particular where skills are learned by transmission and training, which tends to involve copying or replicating before, if ever, adopting one's own style. So in this sense I'm meaning work specifically meant to deceive someone for the purpose of making money rather than something which just can't be verified or has such claims put on it in the contemporary market. For example I'm sure lots of things we call 'fakes' were intended specifically to be that, but sometimes they just are not what a certain buyer/seller thinks either out of ignorance, willful or not, but that the maker didn't intend as a 'fake' at the time. As @Bok and others have pointed out, faking something of course gets more and more complicated and skillful over time and as the stakes go up. Fakes and forgeries of almost anything have existed basically since the idea of an "original" did, so I'm kind of curious about the evolution of Yixing fakes.

So, if factory pots were produced en masse I am guessing there was not much if any need to fake them around the F1 era? Or would/did fakes exist to try and copy higher-tier artists' work, or just to produce something outside the factory to make extra sales? My understanding is this is sort of what happened with nixing wares at some point where the markings on the bottom would be scratched out so it couldn't be directly attributed to anyone/factory and could be sold off the books. Or at that time would the focus have been on faking work which would have been more desirable such as antiques? If so would those fakes have been intended for foreign market (ie Johnny Ignorant thinks he is buying a Qing or Ming object because it looks like something he saw in a book or museum once and doesn't know any better) or for domestic market? I suppose some of this would also involve a deeper knowledge of the political situation at the time than I have in terms of what would have been destroyed or taken during cultural revolution or not, and what therefore would have actually been desirable or not.

[Bok]

@wave_code as far as I’m aware, the big wave of purposely made fakes started in the 90s, which is why this becomes the much hated standard reply many beginners get when they ask about opinions on their newly purchased pots: “90s fake of Xyz-period”

It coincides with the opening up of China and privatisation of the factory, as well as increased demand by overseas Chinese, or that is how it seems to me.

Some more honest replicas were made to demand with chops that indicate that they are replicas, most however are of course not marked, at least not for the uninitiated…

During factory times, especially the early period it seems highly unlikely someone would risk being dragged to a gulag just to make some little extra money on the side by basically stealing government property. And how would they gotten that out of the country?? That involves far more logistics and connections than I would think mere craftsmen would have had at their disposal at the time.

Not sure if the replicas before were made with deceit in mind or merely to replicate the ideals of times past. No idea if there was a market for antiques in antique times??? Maybe.