Yixing

[Andrew S]

@steanze: I think that "current western market phenomenon" really means not a phenomenon at all, or perhaps just the illusion of a phenomenon...

@Mark-S: they're simple shapes with a rough charm. To me, they feel like an antique version of the F1 shuiping, so perhaps they appeal to people who don't want decorated, complicated or artistic teapots and who want simple shapes, or who want an antique clay without any particular need for good or interesting craftsmanship.

But I think that the Western market (limited as it is) is perhaps appreciating antique pots a little bit more than a decade ago, now that they're starting to become a little bit easier to find online, yet it doesn't have access to more interesting shapes or higher-quality examples, so it takes what it gets, and if it gets given julunzhu, it takes them.

Perhaps the odd Western ideal of a fast-pouring teapot has something to do with it as well.

@Bok: "Personally I find religious texts on ordinary everyday use objects a bit questionable"; there's a part of me that tends to agree for reasons that I find hard to explain. Perhaps that explains why the only teapot that I have with any writing on it (so far) is just an ad for a Hong Kong tea house...

Andrew

[Mark-S]

The first time I read about Julunzhu was on teachat. Someone wrote that they were often excavated from graves... interesting... but also weird. I know that most antique plates were excavated... but this is a bit different... It's the same with teapots from ship wrecks. I can't enjoy my tea thinking about it.

, but also the “mad hutter tea cult” made them popular by writing about land using them… especially the ones with heart sutra on them.

I don't understand this. What does Alice in Wonderland have to do with it? (I did not read the book, but I watched the movie)

Bok: "Personally I find religious texts on ordinary everyday use objects a bit questionable"; there's a part of me that tends to agree for reasons that I find hard to explain. Perhaps that explains why the only teapot that I have with any writing on it (so far) is just an ad for a Hong Kong tea house...

I really like the ones with poems. With religious texts it depends on the message it delivers.

[Andrew S]

@Mark-S: I think that Bok was perhaps referring obliquely to a certain American tea group that sells water crystals, among more ordinary tea items...

As to 'excavated' teapots, I'm not aware of there being much risk of that if you're just looking at the LQER period. It's the earlier periods that tend to have those (as to which, there was a discussion here on the blog page I think about a certain Malaysian Indiana Jones / grave robber and his excavated pots).

But in any event, I've never heard that julunzhu are any more or less likely to be excavated. I think that that's only really likely for mid-qing pots and earlier.

Andrew

[Teachronicles]

But I think that the Western market (limited as it is) is perhaps appreciating antique pots a little bit more than a decade ago, now that they're starting to become a little bit easier to find online, yet it doesn't have access to more interesting shapes or higher-quality examples, so it takes what it gets, and if it gets given julunzhu, it takes them.

Thatd be my guess as well, lack of access, and maybe the generally cheaper price tag. Agree with what you say about the "Western market phenomenon" too. Compared to the East, it's like a needle in a haystack. The number of people willing to pay $2k+ for a teapot is probably a small percentage of that small amount to begin with.

[Teachronicles]

(as to which, there was a discussion here on the blog page I think about a certain Malaysian Indiana Jones / grave robber and his excavated pots).

Andrew

Oh boy, i missed this. Care to send me a link to that in PM perhaps?

[Bok]

@Mark-S were those Asian collector fb groups? If people ask you to buy it, maybe that’s a good sign not sell haha! You might have gotten lucky!

[Andrew S]

@Teachronicles: I can do better than a PM for anyone else who's interested: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=2034

The website is interesting, even if people may have certain views about how he goes about getting those pots.

The website used to have a photo of a teapot... in the course of being excavated next to its former owner... not sure if that particular photo is still there, but I'd only suggest that those with a strong constitution try to find it.

Andrew

[Bok]

Not so obliquely no, haha! To me that name is much more descriptive than their chosen name, no virtue in that haha (that’s a truly oblique pun for those who understand Chinese).

Almost 100% that Julunzhu are never excavated.

Mid Qing and earlier, yes that is a distinct possibility.

And what about antique shuiping shapes? We’ll, that’s where we come to the availability issues, usually Zhuni or other nicer clays, made well, so not the same category as Julunzhu. Which are still relatively popular in Taiwan, maybe due to a more Japanese influenced tea culture than other diasporas. But same as for the Western market it’s usually the ones who can’t afford the higher quality ones who use the more accessible commoner Julunzhu.

[Mark-S]

@Andrew S

"I think that Bok was perhaps referring obliquely to a certain American tea group that sells water crystals, among more ordinary tea items..."

Ah, now I know who @Bok was referring to

Thanks for the hint. I did not read this blog post before... interesting. I only got one pot that's older than LQER period, and I don't think that I will buy another one any time soon. They are just too expensive. So I don't have to worry about it then.

@Bok

Yeah, it was. They don't do this very often. The only time I've been asked before was when I posted a pot with a dragon head. Apparently, this style is very popular in China. The papaya teapot was more promising to @OCTO. If at least one of the two teapots is genuine I've gotten very lucky.

"Almost 100% that Julunzhu are never excavated."

Ok, thanks for the clarification. I've found another post mentioning that "some" were found in graves. But I searched for ZhangZhou and couldn't find anything about Julunzhu pots. I guess this is just false then.

[Andrew S]

From what I understand (and I look forward to others correcting me), the julunzhu shape is not very ancient in origin, and I'm not sure if there are many (or any) earlier than the LQER period.

Perhaps it was an attempt to hark back to older days, even back then.

Andrew

[Bok]

From what I understand (and I look forward to others correcting me), the julunzhu shape is not very ancient in origin, and I'm not sure if there are many (or any) earlier than the LQER period.

Perhaps it was an attempt to hark back to older days, even back then.

Andrew

As far as I know it’s no earlier than late Qing. And I have never heard of any grave excavation Julunzhu. That one statement above I’d consider with caution unless confirmed by other sources. Also the poster in question clearly has no clue as how to handle these pots, as mentioned before with the help of the sides of the lid it’s easy and burn free to use.

[OCTO]

The papaya teapot was more promising to OCTO. If at least one of the two teapots is genuine I've gotten very lucky.

Yup.. Definitely more promising to me... hahaha.... the other pot looks good, but several red flags kept be at bay. The papaya pot at best I would guesstimate (without holding the pot in my hands) to be approximately circa 1970s.

Cheers!

[Mark-S]

Yup.. Definitely more promising to me... hahaha.... the other pot looks good, but several red flags kept be at bay. The papaya pot at best I would guesstimate (without holding the pot in my hands) to be approximately circa 1970s.

Thanks for your reply 70's? I thought that I could exclude this possibility. It looks very different to me. I've never seen a similar calligraphy from F1 and clay/craftsmanship look very different too. Now, I got three conflicting opinions about this pot... great I think I'll post better photos in one of these Chinese Facebook groups after I've cleaned it to get a few more opinions. It would be ok though if this one is from the 70's. In my opinion the craftsmanship is superior to all other pots I've seen from this era. So definitely a nice find for little money.

[Chadrinkincat]

JLZ is a simple functional design w/ rustic charms that appeals to fans of standard SP. It is a must have shape for westerns that own too many F1 pots and want something older than 60’s.

[Chadrinkincat]

Mark-S were those Asian collector fb groups? If people ask you to buy it, maybe that’s a good sign not sell haha! You might have gotten lucky!

Yea if multiple Asian collectors are asking to buy it odds are it might be worthwhile to not sell it before getting an accurate estimate of its worth. @Mark-S

Nothing worse than selling a mint condition ROC dragon pot for wholesale price.