Introduce Yourself

[mbanu]

I've been asked for a formal introduction, so I will try to give one. I joined TeaChat in 2010 under the same name.

How long have you been drinking tea?

I don't know! I bought my first teapot around 15 years ago, however, a Chinese-made Blue Willow. If I recall correctly, I proceeded to make gunpowder in it.

What factors lead you to delve into the world of tea, and what is keeping you there?

I was fortunate to live next to a few nice brick-and-mortar teashops at various times in my life, and to befriend other tea-drinkers; these had a positive influence on me. One shop focused mainly on British teas, which lead me to discover what a wealth of information on this style of tea is available for free and in English, both in the public domain and as present-day information as modern tea research in the former British colonies is still primarily practiced in English.

A bit later I became interested in Hong Kong tea-culture, more as an extension of British tea culture, things like Hong Kong milk tea and cha chaan teng establishments. This lead to a bit of curiosity over dimsum tea-culture, buying Chan Kam Pong's pu'er books, and through a bit of innocent purchasing discovering the shock of counterfeit pu'er.

Also following those old British public domain works back down the timeline eventually you arrive at their pre-India tea trade; I became curious if any of those Chinese teas talked about under old trade names like Moyune or Kaisow were being made in modern China. This reminded me of my early love of gunpowder tea, which lead me to discover West African ataya.

At the same time I was a bit puzzled by the unspoken silence online about tea under nationalized China; everyone seemed very excited about Chinese tea now, but jumped from now straight back to romantic images of Chinese tea during Qing or earlier times, or maybe the Republican era without jazz-age Shanghai; Temple of Heaven gunpowder was not a part of the narrative. That lead me to try as best as I could to understand what was missing and why it was missing. Eventually this lead me to notice other gaps in the type of tea that people talk about online, most recently American-style tea.

[LeoFox]

At the same time I was a bit puzzled by the unspoken silence online about tea under nationalized China; everyone seemed very excited about Chinese tea now, but jumped from now straight back to romantic images of Chinese tea during Qing or earlier times, or maybe the Republican era

Jump straight back to romantic images if Chinese tea during Qing or earlier times? Have not seen this being romanticized outside of crappy teabag sellers promoting their Chinese dust...

Eventually this lead me to notice other gaps in the type of tea that people talk about online, most recently American-style tea.

Flavored teabags is as prevalent as bud light. Here is an online connoisseur:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCopfYh ... O9G7hqWag/

http://tealeafproject.blogspot.com/?m=1

And here is a random selection of teas that she analyzes. I think this is what you call American tea, right?

[Toha0652]

happy new year!

[mbanu]

Jump straight back to romantic images if Chinese tea during Qing or earlier times? Have not seen this being romanticized outside of crappy teabag sellers promoting their Chinese dust...

So the first loose teas I remember drinking were the nationalized and early pre-nationalized Chinese teas, Temple of Heaven gunpowder, Sea Dyke oolong, Sunflower jasmine, all with the sort of standardized packaging where you might accidentally buy another brand by mistake because they all looked the same and were all made by "Native Produce & Animal By-Products" companies. Yet online, the only folks who seem interested in or even aware of the nationalized teas at all are a declining number of pu'er drinkers who shrug off the "factory tea" remarks.

So what are people excited about? Wild tea. Tea in cakes. Single bush teas (quietly aided by clonal propagation). Talking about finding rare water for brewing tea, rather than blending tea to the local water (like tea for hard water). This is all very old-timey stuff.

There is a similar thing going on with teapots. Like with British teapots, there are some folks who collect antique Wedgwood pots, but general British teapot fans would know about Blue Willow pattern pots, and Brown Betty pots, and maybe some of the Stoke-on-Trent potteries. So I would have expected that while there are some folks who collect antique Yixing pots, general Chinese teapot fans would know about ricegrain pattern pots, and Celadon pots, and maybe some of the Jingdezhen potteries. But it isn't really like that, it's just Yixing and Yixing-style pots. China worked hard to modernize its ceramics industry, but the sort of pots people online want to talk about are made by hand using unblended clays and old non-machine assisted techniques. (The only ones who want to talk about the Chinese pottery that produced the Oreo teapot are us, it seems. )

Maybe I am explaining myself badly...

Flavored teabags is as prevalent as bud light. Here is an online connoisseur:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCopfYh ... O9G7hqWag/

http://tealeafproject.blogspot.com/?m=1

And here is a random selection of teas that she analyzes. I think this is what you call American tea, right?

I guess the best thing I can do here is point to the sort of posts I've been making. If you look around online for other people talking about Hall China, you will find the offline collectors' club. If you look for people talking about vintage Victoria magazine or the new curly-script magazines, there are a few folks on Blogspot who mostly stick to themselves. If you look for folks talking about the American tea stores than became grocery stores like Great Atlantic & Pacific Tea, Jewel Tea, etc., you will find a forum on grocery store history that rarely talks about tea. As to be expected, the people who talk about Ceylon tea the most online are the agencies responsible for regulating them, but online there is almost the impression nobody drinks Ceylon tea; nobody is talking about Uva vs. Kandy the way they talk about different regions of Yunnan. The Red Hatters and the Junior League tea-cultures are almost entirely offline. Yet if you go to a brick-and-mortar American teashop, you will see those curly-script magazines, you will see people seeking out Uva and Kandy tea. If you go to a brick-and-mortar American tearoom, you will see Red Hatters. This disconnect between offline and online American tea-culture is what puzzles me.

[LeoFox]

So the first loose teas I remember drinking were the nationalized and early pre-nationalized Chinese teas, Temple of Heaven gunpowder, Sea Dyke oolong, Sunflower jasmine, all with the sort of standardized packaging where you might accidentally buy another brand by mistake because they all looked the same and were all made by "Native Produce & Animal By-Products" companies. Yet online, the only folks who seem interested in or even aware of the nationalized teas at all are a declining number of pu'er drinkers who shrug off the "factory tea" remarks.

I'm not sure what that has to do with your claim that:

everyone seemed very excited about Chinese tea now, but jumped from now straight back to romantic images of Chinese tea during Qing or earlier times, or maybe the Republican era without jazz-age Shanghai; Temple of Heaven gunpowder was not a part of the narrative

Who is jumping back to romantic images of chinese tea during qing or earlier times? And what is your concern here? Are you concerned that a lot of Chinese teas now are making nationalistic claims about the greatness of chinese culture - a chinese culture that predates communism, and yet these tea companies are controlled by the CCP? Are you concerned that tea culture is being culturally weaponized by the CCP to spread chinese nationalism?

So what are people excited about? Wild tea. Tea in cakes. Single bush teas (quietly aided by clonal propagation). Talking about finding rare water for brewing tea, rather than blending tea to the local water (like tea for hard water). This is all very old-timey stuff.

I wasn't aware that the the pursuit of quality and rarity in raw materials is particularly "old timey" or "romantic". In contrast, it is the "American" tea bags that try to evoke more romance. Case in point: This is the company description of Harney and Son's very popular and abominable Paris blend:

Mike has spent many a fine day and a few nights enjoying the charms of Paris. In fact, his wife, Brigitte, is from Paris. So when he got the chance to return the favor, he created this lovely fruity blend. Like the city (and also his wife), it is very complex. However the results are very popular!

...

I would have expected that while there are some folks who collect antique Yixing pots, general Chinese teapot fans would know about ricegrain pattern pots, and Celadon pots, and maybe some of the Jingdezhen potteries. But it isn't really like that, it's just Yixing and Yixing-style pots. China worked hard to modernize its ceramics industry, but the sort of pots people online want to talk about are made by hand using unblended clays and old non-machine assisted techniques.

Based on this teaforum, interest clearly extends beyond yixing. As for modernization of ceramics industry, do you mean the doping to improve successful firing rates? Some would argue that China worked hard to make money.

The Red Hatters and the Junior League tea-cultures are almost entirely offline. Yet if you go to a brick-and-mortar American teashop, you will see those curly-script magazines, you will see people seeking out Uva and Kandy tea. If you go to a brick-and-mortar American tearoom, you will see Red Hatters.

From your posts, it seems these societies are more about socialization than the tea itself. Personally, I've never met anyone from red hat society or junior league - never heard of them in fact until I came to this forum. Maybe I'm too young or too poor or not "WASP" enough to partake in what iseems to be, mostly an older generation anglosaxon social phenomenon. Regarding the finer points of Ceylon tea - it does seem there aren't too many people talking about drinking those here. Why don't you post about them? I posted about a Sabaragamuwa tea recently.

Finally, I would argue that the kinds of tea reviewed in the link i provided is what would likely be considered American tea now. Most people I know who drink tea, drink this kind of tea - mostly because it is convenient and adds some caffeine to their day. They also like the different kind of flavorings added.

[faj]

China worked hard to modernize its ceramics industry, but the sort of pots people online want to talk about are made by hand using unblended clays and old non-machine assisted techniques.

The printing industry worked hard to modernize the art printing industry, but the sort of paintings people online want to talk about are made by hand using unblended paints and old non-machine assisted techniques.

What is discussed most is not what sells most, and that seems a rule rather than an exception. Cars, houses, art, clothes...

That does not seem either surprising or problematic to me.

[mbanu]

Who is jumping back to romantic images of chinese tea during qing or earlier times? And what is your concern here? Are you concerned that a lot of Chinese teas now are making nationalistic claims about the greatness of chinese culture - a chinese culture that predates communism, and yet these tea companies are controlled by the CCP? Are you concerned that tea culture is being culturally weaponized by the CCP to spread chinese nationalism?

It is strange that there is a gap; it would be like if someone were trying to talk about British tea-culture where they talked about British interest in Chinese tea in the 19th century and then sort of trailed off and jumped straight to the new growing modern British interest in Chinese tea, and completely ignored the 20th century, even though Indian and Kenyan teas, PG Tips, Typhoo, etc. are all a presence in British tea today. Many of the old nationalized companies in China are a popular presence in China even today, but this is not really clear online except from the few folks talking about Menghai, Kunming, etc., and rarely then by their modern names like Taetea, COFCO, etc.

I wasn't aware that the the pursuit of quality and rarity in raw materials is particularly "old timey" or "romantic".

It's the framework that defines quality and rarity that is old-timey. For instance, in modern tea industry, careful bush management is thought to improve quality over leaving the tea to its own devices. The cake as a form of packaging is useful for sheng pu'er, but people online are also excited about stuff like black (red) tea in cakes. Rarity for the sake of rarity also seems very old-China. If I understand correctly, a big part of nationalizing the tea industry was to break down those barriers so that if there was some rare practice that made some tea better than others, it could be shared among all the tea producers. Even with Yixing, you had this where the boutique Yixing potters were gathered together and then used to standardize and train the whole industry using their secrets. So the puzzling part is why online talk about Chinese tea did not really seem to share the same sort of thrust as the mainstream Chinese tea culture as it existed for many years.

In contrast, it is the "American" tea bags that try to evoke more romance. Case in point: This is the company description of Harney and Son's very popular and abominable Paris blend:

Mike has spent many a fine day and a few nights enjoying the charms of Paris. In fact, his wife, Brigitte, is from Paris. So when he got the chance to return the favor, he created this lovely fruity blend. Like the city (and also his wife), it is very complex. However the results are very popular!

I can see that. I think it may be poorly written, though. Like what does "charms of Paris" mean? To an American loose-leaf tea drinker who goes to the sort of shops that carry loose flavored blends, this would mean the French teashops and their blends, which is what Paris is a copy of: Mariage Frères, Kusmi, Nina's, etc. But to someone who does not know this it seems like a vague allusion to Paris being charming.

Based on this teaforum, interest clearly extends beyond yixing. As for modernization of ceramics industry, do you mean the doping to improve successful firing rates? Some would argue that China worked hard to make money.

The broader interests of teaforum is why I was excited to join! Maybe I should start a thread on wedding-pattern (is that the term?) Chinese teapots.

Maybe I'm too young or too poor or not "WASP" enough to partake in what seems to be, mostly an older generation anglosaxon social phenomenon.

I suppose it is a bit unfair to point to the Red-Hatters, as to join we would need to be over 50, I think I use them as an example because their loud hats make them easier to spot.

Regarding the finer points of Ceylon tea - it does seem there aren't too many people talking about drinking those here. Why don't you post about them? I posted about a Sabaragamuwa tea recently.

It is on my list of things to post about.

Finally, I would argue that the kinds of tea reviewed in the link i provided is what would likely be considered American tea now. Most people I know who drink tea, drink this kind of tea - mostly because it is convenient and adds some caffeine to their day. They also like the different kind of flavorings added.

I guess that's what I find strange. People online act as though American tea-culture doesn't exist, has never existed since the tea was dumped in Boston Harbor in Colonial times, and that all there is is just this sort of Lipton after-thought tea, and yet these are Americans in America, largely, so I wonder why they are not connected to the teashops, the tearooms, the loose-leaf culture as it exists. Like take for example American-style lapsang souchong, which has been continuously blended for over a century, and was so popular the whole industry was moved over to Taiwan during the U.S.-China trade embargo of the 50s rather than going extinct; for an American who likes Chinese teas, this seems like a natural fit, yet people online always seem surprised and confused to find out it exists. Maybe I was lucky in my early American teashop experiences, but I encountered that tea quite a bit.

The teabags themselves are treated like some random cost-saving fad rather than a century-old practice. There is not much discussion online about the bags themselves, or even what a bag is -- a teabag is treated as a type of tea rather than a tea tool like a tea basket or a fairness pitcher. So I hope to encourage discussion on these subjects.

[mbanu]

The printing industry worked hard to modernize the art printing industry, but the sort of paintings people online want to talk about are made by hand using unblended paints and old non-machine assisted techniques.

I suppose to me it seems a bit as though you had people online talking about hyperrealism in paintings, but in a way that suggested they didn't know about photography as a form of art. I would wonder if they didn't know about photography or if they disliked photography, or if something else was going on.

[Bok]

@mbanu Chinese wedding pattern pots, yes please!

Is it those ones from Chaoshan for example? I know these were especially gifted for weddings in that region.

[mbanu]

mbanu Chinese wedding pattern pots, yes please!

Is it those ones from Chaoshan for example? I know these were especially gifted for weddings in that region.

Those look interesting! What is on the lid? I am probably using the wrong term for what I mean. I was mainly talking about these kind of scroll-patterns: https://watersilkdragon.wordpress.com/2 ... ng-period/

[Bok]

Those look interesting! What is on the lid?

It's a duck. Which is more rare, mainly you find fish, frogs, or various vegetables and tree stumps.

[mbanu]

Those look interesting! What is on the lid?

It's a duck. Which is more rare, mainly you find fish, frogs, or various vegetables and tree stumps.

That's a good point -- I think that might be the first duck I've ever seen on a teapot. On the lid seems like a good design choice, as trying to make the teapot itself a duck, the tea would either be coming out of the beak or the rear.

[debunix]

People online act as though American tea-culture doesn't exist

My own partcipation into the online tea world came about because I was seeking information on non-western style teas. If I wanted to drink very basic teas from teabags, or strongly flavored and scented black teas or herbal tea mixes, I didn't need to go online to seek it. I could buy celestial seasonings and lipton and English breakfast in brick & mortar stores, find tea bags offered in restaurants or next to the one hot water pot among the vast array of giant coffee urns at meetings and conferences, see already stocked in my college co-op kitchen, and offered by hosts of gatherings of family and friends.

It was wanting to explore teas that didn't need milk and sugar and other flavorings to cover up a bitterness I couldn't cope with--tea I liked to drink straight--that brought me online. I tried to explore some teas outside of my comfort zone and wasn't finding the same virtues extolled in the limited books I found in my library. I needed information on something that wasn't otherwise available and that's what I sought, and found, online in the forums that led directly to this one.

That long tradition of American tea culture was available in books and brick and mortar stores, and didn't require online ordering or online forums to discuss. Understanding the mysterious offerings in international enthnic groceries, where the English part of the label said very little, or finding better versions than what was available there--these required online investigation. Hence, a strong bias in English-language tea forums towards teas from China, Taiwan, Japan, does not surprise me at all.

[Emilpalm]

Hey guys!

Many greetings from Denmark.

Long time lurker here looking forward to finally participate myself.

I have drank tea for my entire life, however within the last couple of years, I have began diving deeper into the rabbit hole.

Best regards,

Emil

[pedant]

welcome!