Yixing

[klepto]

After much spilled tea I'm kinda finally understanding how to pour tea from a F1 yixing teapot where the lid is loose. Controlling the lid itself makes the pour much more fluid and you don't spill 1/4 of the tea on your table Anyone have any other good yixing pouring tips for a newb such as I .

[OCTO]

From top to bottom:

1. Gong Ju Zini LQ/ER
2. Chang Ji (昌記) Zhuni LQ/ER
3. 80's Duanni
4. 60's Hui Meng Chen Hongni

@TeaTotaling

Very impressive lineup

[Bok]

1. Gong Ju Zini LQ/ER
2. Chang Ji (昌記) Zhuni LQ/ER
3. 80's Duanni
4. 60's Hui Meng Chen Hongni

Nice selection, looks like you got the essentials covered – in the premium version

[Bok]

@TeaTotaling I got a Zhuni in the same shape as yours, but mine has seen some heavy battles.

First in the kiln, high fire has rendered its original orange colour into a myriad of shades, brown metallic, purple metallic, spots of orange and everything in between. Wrinkles all over the place even the spout and lid knob which I have never seen like that before... needless to say it is highly ferromagnetic, jet black bones to the core. The magnet even jumps a short distance to cling to it.

I spent a whole day staring at all the nuances of it. All the reflections that seem metallic are actually that, metallic sheen on the surface from the fire.

Lid was cracked so I got it stapled. Probably one of my most colourful teapots.

[alejandro2high]

Even reputable studios use chemical additives...

Unless this claim is a result of tests being ran on pots from studios like Yann, Yinchen, or Wuxing Shan Fang, I don't see how this is a valid argument in this instance. To cast doubt on the pots from reputable western facing studios because other studios use additives, who probably aren't known as reputable western-facing sellers, is an ineffective argument to suggest people buy primarily pre-80's pots.

I have not seen many pots on those sites that can match the elegance of the lines of a well made antique.

This is my main problem with the basis of your argument in support of antiques. The term "well made antique" sounds very unassuming and nonchalant, but in reality we're talking about a pot that was probably made by an extremely skilled potter.This means that this "well made antique" is probably not even attainable to the general public both because of the rarity of such items and the fact that most people can't afford to go to auction for such item. I do not think that my opinion is too far off base when speaking about common antique, and if we're talking about pots made by potters of such skill then we can really only compare to the pots from YZG made by certified artists.

Things like lid fit are unimportant - a somewhat loose lid is not an issue, neither for functionality nor for aesthetics. Saying that a modern pot is better than an antique because the lid fit is better would be like saying that a digital photo I just took is much better than a Raphael because it is more realistic.

Things like lid fit are unimportant to you. This is exactly why in my response I said that it was my opinion and completely subjunctive. Also, build quality is not just about lid fit; lest we forget how commonplace kiln and tool marks are in older pots, or spouts and handles that are attached very haphazardly or not aligned.None of these things speak for the quality of antiques, but that's not what I was talking about. Build quality, when defined separately from artistic nuances, is, I believe, one of the few ways that we can compare antiques, vintage, and modern pots. Even then it's often futile since they're all really in a league of their own.

how does the pot reflect the artisan's lifelong search for beauty?

I do not think that this has anything to do with build quality. The physical and structural characteristics of something that was well-built is not determined by how an object measures up to such metaphysical questions. I am not questioning that antiques better reflect an artisan's lifelong search for beauty.

On the other hand, I think that your analysis on the progression of zisha available to the west is very interesting. Thanks for sharing, and thank you for your thought out response.

[alejandro2high]

Money.

Traditional methods are more labour and time intensive, more costs that the end-consumer might care little about and is not willing to pay for. Easy to forget that the Western Yixing market is but a little tiny niche of the overall market, so for the studios probably easy to ignore, especially as this is the market which is the least willing to pay top money for teaware.

I don't see this being an issue. YZG and Yinchen both sell pots with clay processed in a hand-powered stone mills, and these pots are not much more expensive than their pots processed in a modern way. YZG has even posted videos of them using one of the aforementioned stone mills. Furthermore, I think that the idea that the western market is not willing to pay top money for teaware is simply not true. If this was the case, we would all be buying yixing from amazon or ebay, and YZG wouldn't be selling pots made by Senior Master of Arts and Crafts and Nationaly Certified Research-level Senior Master of Arts and Crafts.

[Bok]

Money.

Traditional methods are more labour and time intensive, more costs that the end-consumer might care little about and is not willing to pay for. Easy to forget that the Western Yixing market is but a little tiny niche of the overall market, so for the studios probably easy to ignore, especially as this is the market which is the least willing to pay top money for teaware.

I don't see this being an issue. YZG and Yinchen both sell pots with clay processed in a hand-powered stone mills, and these pots are not much more expensive than their pots processed in a modern way. YZG has even posted videos of them using one of the aforementioned stone mills. Furthermore, I think that the idea that the western market is not willing to pay top money for teaware is simply not true. If this was the case, we would all be buying yixing from amazon or ebay, and YZG wouldn't be selling pots made by Senior Master of Arts and Crafts and Nationaly Certified Research-level Senior Master of Arts and Crafts.

Well it depends on the definition of top money. From personal observation, for most Westerners the limit for what they are willing to spend for quality teaware is around 500$, which is far from what are considered premium teapots in Asia. Not saying below priced are not good pots, far from it, but definitely not the upper segment.

As far as traditional processing in modern pots, as nice as videos and claims are, I am as sceptical as I would be with “1000y old tree-wild tea” and the like. Nice stories but hard to verify. Might be true, might be not. Might be done, but not necessarily with the pot that you are getting in the end.

The failure rate for many of the old techniques was quite high, which makes it less attractive to pursue nowadays. Take black bones firing in Zhuni. An accident of old, some studios tried to replicate it, with only very few pieces surviving it, so it was abandoned in the end...

[Bok]

Not to forget that this forum and its members are hardly representative of the larger Western teaware audience... the vast majority will buy exactly these run of the mill teapots. We are a niche and a tiny one.

[Youzi]

@Bok
Love the Calligraphy on that pot

@alejandro2high

Maybe what I could add to the discussion from a processing point of view, is that when I wrote my article about the traditional and modern processing techniques, those two were really the two ends of the spectrum. As it is in life, it's not just black and white.

For example the Raymond and the vacuum machine wastes a lot of material, especially the former. So it's only used for mass produced locomotive (machine half hand) teapots. After that, with higher quality teapots they use large motorized stone mills. Which are basically the same as the small hand operated one, like the one you see in the video in my article. The only difference is that because it's bigger and heavier, it produces a smaller mesh ore dust, but it only defines the maximum particle size, usually the ore dust is sieved further anyway, to create a more even surface.

This large motorized stone mill produces good quality ore dust relatively efficiently and is used for most high end clay.

Next, additives. Higher end clay usually don't have any additives except for barium carbonate, because the ore used is high quality enough, to provide nice colors etc.

Lastly, the biggest difference between old and modern higher end teapots, from a processing standpoint is the Mud Training part. Even really high end modern clay uses the vacuum machine, instead of the manual ( wooden hammer ) Mud Training. The simple reason for this is time and effort. I talked with a Master Level (rank 3) Artist about this, and she said, that the reason 90% of the time she uses the Vacuum machine to Train her Mud is because if she would do it manually, then she would have to beat the mud 24/7/365 to make enough clay which she and her studio and her students could use, to make enough teapots, to make a living. The only time she is using manual mud training, is with rare or more limited ore, because the vacuum machine waste quite a lot of mud, and in her opinion the end result is also the same with both techniques. (I'm on a different opinion here, but from an artistic stand point, she's correct).

so, tl;dr:
- Most higher quality Modern teapots are made with motorized stone mills, usually only have barium carbonate added to them. (usually because the clay is from the 80s-90s and a Fault of F1) and they are trained with the Vacuum Machine.

- Firing is done at least 2 times, with gas or electric kilns, Compared to 1 dragon kiln, wood firing in antique times.

[alejandro2high]

@Youzi

As I said, antiques are in a league of their own in many regards. Thanks for all of the formation. I actually went to your blog when I was responding I still think the research you did into Yixing pots is exceptional.

[TeaTotaling]

@Bok Awesome teapot!! That kiln must have been blazing hot! It’s not everyday you comes across a metallic Zhuni, with chameleon like color characteristics, and wrinkles everywhere.

I find the shape, and clay combination, to brew an excellent cup of Yancha. Mine is around 125ml, but it has a long lid skirt. About 7-8g’s of leaf fit nicely to render a perfect cup.

Regarding the magnetism, is this due to a higher iron content? I have heard black bones mentioned before, but I am not too familiar with the reference. Is this a desirable quality?

[Bok]

Regarding the magnetism, is this due to a higher iron content? I have heard black bones mentioned before, but I am not too familiar with the reference. Is this a desirable quality?

Thanks! Mine is 125ml as well! I’ve seen a couple of these at a friends house, all roughly the same size. But beware this type is famous for cracking! Especially the lid as mine is.

Black bones is very sought after. As I understand it, high fire and oxygen reduction at the beginning of the firing period change the clay properties, which renders it ferromagnetic. The common consensus is that these pots perform extremely well, even among Zhuni.

Yet, as this happens at the beginning of the firing there still is plenty of time to be underfired... I got an example of black bone but slightly underfired Zhuni. Still haven’t found a good tea match for it. So yes and no. As always Yixing stays confusing with no straight answers

[Youzi]

@Bok
@TeaTotaling

I think I accidentally stumbled across western literature on "Black Bone" called Black Coring. It seems to fit perfectly with the Predictability and precision of the times and the Dragon Kiln.
https://digitalfire.com/glossary/black+coring

[Chris]

The conversation and pictures on this thread have been great! Just wanted to say thanks to everyone contributing-- I'm sure I'm not the only one reading and learning.

I hope the accessibility of better-quality teapots continues to increase in the West, despite being a drop in the bucket of the overall market. I'm in the very American situation of paying the equivalent of an antique pot in student loan payments every few months. (Luckily not a super high-end antique pot!) I hope to purchase a few once the loans are finished.

For now, I'm sticking with my handful of F1 pots and a recent DCQ purchase from Yann. The DCQ and F1 zini I've found to be very satisfactory (late Green Label and White Label F1 hongni I'm less sure about), but hope to see the contrast with older clay one day soon.

[Chadrinkincat]

@TeaTotaling
Zisha porn!

Hows that F1 duanni pot working out?