Buying Pu'erh for the long haul

[EarthMonkey]

Since I've been tasting a while, I've seen how some productions have appreciated. I've missed buying some when they were cheap, other's not. The price of a production is timing. It often takes a very long time for a production to "bloom." Nobody really knows. It's a moving target. The factories are thus regarded because of their track record and probabilities. The lineage matters quite a bit too.

I decided early on to buy up some stuff from probably the most famous woman in the Menghai lineage. There is one production in particular that I regarded as extremely mediocre until last year, then it exploded with sweetness and flavour. Nobody knows what that production would become unless they'd tasted previous versions or was knowledgeable about her talents. For me it was pure novelty. You can read quite a bit about her in Chinese language material but zero in English. Again, for me it was just novelty, but from my perspective entirely legit. I didn't look for pricing, I looked for novelty.

Western vendors present an interesting reality to puerh. More specifically, English language puerh phenomena is, as mentioned before, unique. For example, I might really vibe off sharing with other my experience in drinking Kundalini Houdini (an obviously possible Western name for a production--legitimate in itself), than something no one has ever heard of nor will ever experience. Maybe the experience you had was entirely subjective, an illusion.

Fortunately, I've had an opportunity to test things with others to determine my grip on reality. I've rarely been disappointed and the most egregious time was not the production as such but what I had expected from it at that time. It's a moving target and the more dynamic the production the more confidence you can have in the manufacturer. That is not an instantaneous relationship. In fact, it's years.

Just my impression, which isn't too commonly shared, not in English. I feel folks are too afraid to make mistakes, but what's the harm of mistaking on shy side of a possible misperception? Whenever you don't like something, you just store it till you have learned something about its development yeah or nay. It's a relationship, not something you just pop from a box.

To put it another way, you should absolutely desist from purchasing $500 tea unless you're simply a gambler. I was trying to figure what intrigued me about this post. It's that you're asking us to take the journey for you. Impossible.

All that I can say is price point is positively the worst parameter you can go by. There are so many vendors online that you can evaluate with your budget. You want to look especially at storage, as well as the expression you prefer. Perhaps, like many of us, you prefer different things at different times of day or you are more fitted to a specific tea moment.

I can conservatively say I go through 100g/wk. I don't count and don't care. I have a huge rotation, including season and vessel. It's often about me not projecting my expectations upon the offering. Other times, it's about when it's time. You can purchase out of the box, but it won't stay that way, because it's a moving target.

[thommes]

I'd rather not say specifically. I dont know if it is the tea, or if I'm not ready for the tea yet.

I will say that it is supposed to be much more oriented to the chi realm. It is not so much known for flavor.

I hope that I can learn to open up to the chi aspect of pu'erh. I some point, I might be really happy about this "mistake"

I completely respect your decision. And who knows, try it again in a few months, year. The tea may take on a different taste, but if it's not known for the taste then possibly not.

I bought puer from a loose leaf vendor a long time ago. It had an earthy taste. That was the taste that I accepted and like. However, my cholesterol went down 100 pts when I drank it on a regular basis. My doctor sort of laughed at me when I told her the tea reduced my cholesterol. I had no evidence, no studies, read nothing about it online, just noticed that when I had ran out of puer (shou) that my cholesterol was higher. I think some studies are starting to be performed on the benefits of puer. It's been close to 9 months that I've been hitting puer hard. Haven't had blood work done since so it'll be interesting whenever I go in to get the tests done.

The chi aspect... is this the 'really good feeling' that some teas are supposed to generate? I can't say I've experienced that, but wouldn't say that it doesn't exist. I have experienced the runner's high that some runners get. Not sure I'll ever buy a tea just because it's supposed to give me that really good feeling. Just drinking tea improves my mood. There are teas that I won't stop saying 'man this is really good' and for the life of me I don't remember any of them. They are all shous. I need to start keeping a list of happy feeling teas. Now if there was a cheap shou that was supposed to give the drink that really good feeling... I'd be all for trying it.

[mrmopu]

"my cholesterol went down 100 pts when I drank it ", same result with me as well.

There are still bunches of cakes with excellent properties you are looking for without the $500.00 cash output. There are loads of stuff where factories have held maocha to blend in with newer stuff. Some of those 5 and 6 star XG cakes are excellent for the money. There is older DaYi out there but speculation and the price of the newer productions have turned me off from them. If you email a seller with what you look for in a tea they can probably lean you towards what you are looking for. I would sample and find your range. I have stuff I enjoy that I too am stocking for the long haul as well.

[thommes]

"my cholesterol went down 100 pts when I drank it ", same result with me as well.

There are still bunches of cakes with excellent properties you are looking for without the $500.00 cash output. There are loads of stuff where factories have held maocha to blend in with newer stuff. Some of those 5 and 6 star XG cakes are excellent for the money. There is older DaYi out there but speculation and the price of the newer productions have turned me off from them. If you email a seller with what you look for in a tea they can probably lean you towards what you are looking for. I would sample and find your range. I have stuff I enjoy that I too am stocking for the long haul as well.

what does XG stand for?

[Balthazar]

Xiaguan

[EarthMonkey]

what does XG stand for?

Xiaguan Tea Factory, the vaunted Factory #3, most famous for their tuo and iron cakes. Half their production is state controlled for distribution to Tibet. There's a flame mushroom-shaped tuo that is quite popular. They're in the Dali area. Their Gold Ribbon 100g tuo production is quite popular in the West, the older ones. The reputed XG taste is of smoke, though some productions are far smokier than others. Their FT offerings tend to be more highly regarded, as they were crafted with the Taiwan mkt in mind. There's also a Little Bok Choi production that is super highly regarded going back to the 90s, if I recall correctly. There's lots of imitations of this production and their early naught iron cakes. Solid reputation for aging well.

[thommes]

Xiaguan Tea Factory, the vaunted Factory #3, most famous for their tuo and iron cakes. Half their production is state controlled for distribution to Tibet. There's a flame mushroom-shaped tuo that is quite popular. They're in the Dali area. Their Gold Ribbon 100g tuo production is quite popular in the West, the older ones. The reputed XG taste is of smoke, though some productions are far smokier than others. Their FT offerings tend to be more highly regarded, as they were crafted with the Taiwan mkt in mind. There's also a Little Bok Choi production that is super highly regarded going back to the 90s, if I recall correctly. There's lots of imitations of this production and their early naught iron cakes. Solid reputation for aging well.

i've heard people say that some puer gets a smokey taste but i have yet to stumble across one. are we talking as smokey as a lapsang souchong or ardbeg scotch? i'll have to go look for their site if they have one? havent bought diretly from a factory if thats even possible.

iron cakes, yet a new term that i have heard of but didnt know that it was anything more than just a name. need to go look that one up as well. i do have an iron cake from clt.

[thommes]

Some of those 5 and 6 star XG cakes are excellent for the money.

care to share more details? vendor at least?

[EarthMonkey]

i've heard people say that some puer gets a smokey taste but i have yet to stumble across one. are we talking as smokey as a lapsang souchong or ardbeg scotch? i'll have to go look for their site if they have one? havent bought diretly from a factory if thats even possible.
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Some do get smoky and other are smoky getting less so. XG processes in a v. smoky manner and most people complain about the intensity of smoke in their productions. Not all their stuff is smoky, but it seems enough of their stuff is for it to have that reputation. There are some productions that can be like lapsang. I'm starting to discover a whole class of puerhs that I'd classify as scotch. I'm not fond of those at all, especially when they're fiery like scotch with little sweetness. I recently acquired one such production. It is also the most vicious experience I've ever had, kicking my ass after only one pot. One 150ml pot and I tapped out. The next day was the same. I'm afraid of that tea. You're not going to taste whisky in any young tea, but you will smoke.

What some might be associating with smoke others identify as petrol, kerosene, wood sap. This petrol effect is a stage that some puerhs grow into. Sometimes that vibe gets strong and stronger. Some age into expressing more root beer attributes. Some end up being a blend both. Root beer is definitely my fav. I've noticed that some productions that had waxy tastes now becoming more petrolated. I'm noticing productions that I previously associated with tobacco, e.g. XG, I'm associating with petrol and honey as they get older.

I did have a few XG tuo that I bought in '14 which I tried and felt was the most horrible puerh I had ever tasted. It wasn't the smoke. It tasted rotten. Horrible. I've detected it in other XG productions, so I know it wasn't the storage but something at the factory. I don't drink much XG generally. Anyway, in '18 after subjected the tuo to much abuse, not in the storage container, just sitting in garage with other teas I hate. I mean really hate. Bam-BANG-POW! It was a delicious dark root beer forest, sweet beyond belief, bright camphor notes, and no dank weird taste to be detected in the least.

There's a site called King Tea Mall that has XG stuff. Prices are v. reasonable. Lotta people go there, it seems. Haven't heard any complaints. Older items too, I think.
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iron cakes, yet a new term that i have heard of but didnt know that it was anything more than just a name. need to go look that one up as well. i do have an iron cake from clt.
[/quote]

Iron cakes are cakes (bing) that have had the daylights pressed out of it. Flat without the hole and compact. Like tuo and many bricks these productions work best in clay and chunked. Flecking tea from these productions doesn't give a very good effect upon brewing.
Just a chunk in the pot and forget about it.

[Rickpatbrown]

iron cakes, yet a new term that i have heard of but didnt know that it was anything more than just a name. need to go look that one up as well. i do have an iron cake from clt.

I think iron cakes were made to combat the traditional storage methods of Hong Kong. Their tight pressing helped them age more slowly in the high humidity/heat conditions popular in HK in the past.

Yet another variable to consider when buying Pu'erh

[thommes]

Some age into expressing more root beer attributes. Some end up being a blend both. Root beer is definitely my fav.

must know which ones. root beer is my fav. haven't come across a puer that I'd say resembles root beer. I would be the first to say if you want to drink root beer drink root beer, but I was dxd with diabetes last year and have given up all sodas and don't even suggest diet.

[thommes]

Iron cakes are cakes (bing) that have had the daylights pressed out of it. Flat without the hole and compact. Like tuo and many bricks these productions work best in clay and chunked. Flecking tea from these productions doesn't give a very good effect upon brewing.
Just a chunk in the pot and forget about it.

still working on finding the right pot. but that's how I typically brew bricks, tous, and lao cha tous. a chunk in a gaiwan. I did have a mushroom tou dry out on me recently and it flakes apart pretty easily but still brews up well.

just had a thought. why did the 1000g bricks ever come about? I've heard they are pressed like iron cakes. you have to saw them into smaller squares. doesn't seem like something that would be desirable.

[EarthMonkey]

Some age into expressing more root beer attributes. Some end up being a blend both. Root beer is definitely my fav.

must know which ones. root beer is my fav. haven't come across a puer that I'd say resembles root beer. I would be the first to say if you want to drink root beer drink root beer, but I was dxd with diabetes last year and have given up all sodas and don't even suggest diet.

If you've got it in you to sing Hail to the Victors, I think I could find a few root beer samples to send you.

[debunix]

I was dxd with diabetes last year and have given up all sodas and don't even suggest diet.

I'm having a lot of fun with my soda stream and various teas.....sparkling sencha, sparkling oolongs, sparkling gyokuro; and I probably should be playing with sparkling herbal infusions as well. Hibiscus for tart fruity notes, hydrangea and licorice for sweet, citrus zest, cinnamon, cloves, cardamom....possibilities are endless. I probably should order some sarsaparilla root to play with too!

[EarthMonkey]