What should I change if my tea is very savory, but bland?
Saemidori Shincha (fukamushi) - 4g, 200ml water, 80C for 60 seconds
I get a delicious cup of tea like this. The seller recommends 4g for 2 "people" at 80C for 60 seconds, but does not define how much water is "1 person".
Normally steamed Uji sencha - 5g, 200ml water at 80C for 60 seconds
I get a very "heavy"/savory cup of tea but it is extremely bland with very little green tea taste. The seller recommends 10g of tea for 180cc but I felt like 1g of tea for 18cc of water was way too much...
I don't know the cultivar of the normally steamed Uji sencha, so this could be an apples to oranges comparison but I don't really have any other references to compare to.
Any tips on what to change for the normally steamed Uji sencha to get more "tea" flavor out?
What Green Are You Drinking
I would start with vendor recommendation and tweak it from there. When there is no recommendation with sencha I’ll start with 1gram leaf/ 1 ounce (30ml) water/ 155F (68C)/ 75 seconds in preheated kyusu and refine it from that base. That the vendor recommended 10g/ 6oz (180ml)/ 80C/ 60sec might sound like a lot of leaf, but it may work for this particular sencha. These proportions are not uncommon with Sae Midori, I’ve used similar proportions many times. Your personal preference toward richer or lighter liquor will guide your refinement. I usually prefer thicker, richer, brothier brews so typically use more leaf than recommended, someone else might prefer less leaf and a lighter liquor. If bitterness comes out use less heat and or less time, if liquor is thin use more leaf and maybe slightly more heat. Sometimes though if the sencha isn’t high enough quality, the taste can be blah and you can just steep as best you can, exploring different parameters, and enjoy it as a beverage to accompany a meal.twno1 wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 10:04 amWhat should I change if my tea is very savory, but bland?
Saemidori Shincha (fukamushi) - 4g, 200ml water, 80C for 60 seconds
I get a delicious cup of tea like this. The seller recommends 4g for 2 "people" at 80C for 60 seconds, but does not define how much water is "1 person".
Normally steamed Uji sencha - 5g, 200ml water at 80C for 60 seconds
I get a very "heavy"/savory cup of tea but it is extremely bland with very little green tea taste. The seller recommends 10g of tea for 180cc but I felt like 1g of tea for 18cc of water was way too much...
I don't know the cultivar of the normally steamed Uji sencha, so this could be an apples to oranges comparison but I don't really have any other references to compare to.
Any tips on what to change for the normally steamed Uji sencha to get more "tea" flavor out?
A two person serving I think is +-150ml.
Thanks for the suggestions. Are there any general recommendations regarding 2nd and 3rd infusions for sencha? I don't think this sencha is a low quality sencha as it is being sold by a vendor for approximately $30/100g.Victoria wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 12:55 pmI would start with vendor recommendation and tweak it from there. When there is no recommendation with sencha I’ll start with 1gram leaf/ 1 ounce (30ml) water/ 155F (68C)/ 75 seconds in preheated kyusu and refine it from that base. That the vendor recommended 10g/ 6oz (180ml)/ 80C/ 60sec might sound like a lot of leaf, but it may work for this particular sencha. These proportions are not uncommon with Sae Midori, I’ve used similar proportions many times. Your personal preference toward richer or lighter liquor will guide your refinement. I usually prefer thicker, richer, brothier brews so typically use more leaf than recommended, someone else might prefer less leaf and a lighter liquor. If bitterness comes out use less heat and or less time, if liquor is thin use more leaf and maybe slightly more heat. Sometimes though if the sencha isn’t high enough quality, the taste can be blah and you can just steep as best you can, exploring different parameters, and enjoy it as a beverage to accompany a meal.
A two person serving I think is +-150ml.
Interestingly enough, the vendor recommends different parameters than the actual manufacturer: 5g/200ml at 60C for 60 seconds, then 80C for 10 seconds, then 90C for 45 seconds.
For second and third steeps I use to change temperature and time, but now use the same for first and second, and just double time for subsequent steeps, using same temperature and volume. I know others do it somewhat differently though.twno1 wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 2:19 pmThanks for the suggestions. Are there any general recommendations regarding 2nd and 3rd infusions for sencha? I don't think this sencha is a low quality sencha as it is being sold by a vendor for approximately $30/100g.
Interestingly enough, the vendor recommends different parameters than the actual manufacturer: 5g/200ml at 60C for 60 seconds, then 80C for 10 seconds, then 90C for 45 seconds.
Unless there is a very long gap between first and second infusions, I do not reheat the water between first and second infusions, so it is a little cooler, and the second infusion is much shorter, because the now thoroughly wet leaves give flavorful liquor more rapidly. The third I usually infuse like the first--reheat the water, same infusion time more or less as the first. Fourth infusion I up both temp and infusion time.
This morning's Obubu Kabuse was LOVELY.
This morning's Obubu Kabuse was LOVELY.
I am having Anji Bai Cha this morning.
I have recently gone through a bag of asamushi sencha which, especially on second infusions, reminded me of Anji Bai Cha. Now, the last I had Anji Bai cha was last year, and I did not purchase a lot of it then. It was before I joined the forum. It had been months since I had any Chinese green tea actually.
I have actually run out of sencha now, shipment delays and all. I checked out my "local" supplier's website, and while they had no Japanese teas I was interested in, they had a few Chinese greens from this spring. I pulled the trigger and now have this order to fill in the gap. I was quite anxious to try the Anji Bai Cha, to see how the tea would be, but also how I would have changed as a tea drinker.
This morning, leaves in warm gaiwan gave typical aromas, but nothing earth-shattering. I started to worry a bit. Now, I must say the first time I purchased Anji Bai Cha, the warm leaves had, far and away, the best aromas I have ever gotten from any tea. I still remember where I was when I smelled that. Back then, I was almost sad to infuse the leaves. The smell was extremely intense, crisp yet warm, freshly green, sweet... Maybe the most vivid memory in my whole tea-drinking life, to this day. The liquor itself was good, but not to that level. Last year, the tea I received was a bit of a disappointment. I remembered Anji Bai Cha as a tea that delivers a very good first infusion, but quickly lost its magic after that. Which gets us to this morning's tasting.
First infusion : 4g in about 100ml gaiwan, 75C, 30s. Very sweet, aromatic, persistent. Very good. Second infusion, a few seconds, still 75C. Surprisingly similar to the first one. Not as finely aromatic, maybe a bit more on the piny side. Third infusion, maybe 80C for one minute. Still surprisingly good, with pleasant thickness. Fourth infusion, about 90s, starting to get to the "green tea leaf" taste, losing a bit of specificity, but still the piny green aromas are present and persistent.
Very good session. Better than I expected.
First impression is, this is tea I would gladly purchase in larger amounts for storage in the fridge, if only that supplier provided nitro-flushed and well-sealed bags. Maybe I could get away with oxygen absorbers? In any case, I will surely purchase more than the 100g I have and hope it does not degrade too fast. I will also play around infusing this tea in clay teapots, which I have never done in the past.
I have recently gone through a bag of asamushi sencha which, especially on second infusions, reminded me of Anji Bai Cha. Now, the last I had Anji Bai cha was last year, and I did not purchase a lot of it then. It was before I joined the forum. It had been months since I had any Chinese green tea actually.
I have actually run out of sencha now, shipment delays and all. I checked out my "local" supplier's website, and while they had no Japanese teas I was interested in, they had a few Chinese greens from this spring. I pulled the trigger and now have this order to fill in the gap. I was quite anxious to try the Anji Bai Cha, to see how the tea would be, but also how I would have changed as a tea drinker.
This morning, leaves in warm gaiwan gave typical aromas, but nothing earth-shattering. I started to worry a bit. Now, I must say the first time I purchased Anji Bai Cha, the warm leaves had, far and away, the best aromas I have ever gotten from any tea. I still remember where I was when I smelled that. Back then, I was almost sad to infuse the leaves. The smell was extremely intense, crisp yet warm, freshly green, sweet... Maybe the most vivid memory in my whole tea-drinking life, to this day. The liquor itself was good, but not to that level. Last year, the tea I received was a bit of a disappointment. I remembered Anji Bai Cha as a tea that delivers a very good first infusion, but quickly lost its magic after that. Which gets us to this morning's tasting.
First infusion : 4g in about 100ml gaiwan, 75C, 30s. Very sweet, aromatic, persistent. Very good. Second infusion, a few seconds, still 75C. Surprisingly similar to the first one. Not as finely aromatic, maybe a bit more on the piny side. Third infusion, maybe 80C for one minute. Still surprisingly good, with pleasant thickness. Fourth infusion, about 90s, starting to get to the "green tea leaf" taste, losing a bit of specificity, but still the piny green aromas are present and persistent.
Very good session. Better than I expected.
First impression is, this is tea I would gladly purchase in larger amounts for storage in the fridge, if only that supplier provided nitro-flushed and well-sealed bags. Maybe I could get away with oxygen absorbers? In any case, I will surely purchase more than the 100g I have and hope it does not degrade too fast. I will also play around infusing this tea in clay teapots, which I have never done in the past.
@faj the Anji Bai sounds really good, would be nice to see some photos while steeping. I’m sure the leaves are beautiful.
Continuing with my refrigerated 2013 Shincha Shincha from Maiko. Very good, flavor profile has changed since 2013, mellowed out and more subdued. Caffeine kick still there though. Looking forward to getting a fresh supply from O-Cha next week.
Continuing with my refrigerated 2013 Shincha Shincha from Maiko. Very good, flavor profile has changed since 2013, mellowed out and more subdued. Caffeine kick still there though. Looking forward to getting a fresh supply from O-Cha next week.
Quick update on my post:
I tried the manufacturer's recommendation at 10g/180cc and the resulting tea just tasted bad. It was extremely savory and I felt like I was drinking unsalted seaweed broth instead of tea...
I tried the manufacturer's recommendation at 10g/180cc and the resulting tea just tasted bad. It was extremely savory and I felt like I was drinking unsalted seaweed broth instead of tea...
Will keep these in mind, thanks.debunix wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 5:52 pmUnless there is a very long gap between first and second infusions, I do not reheat the water between first and second infusions, so it is a little cooler, and the second infusion is much shorter, because the now thoroughly wet leaves give flavorful liquor more rapidly. The third I usually infuse like the first--reheat the water, same infusion time more or less as the first. Fourth infusion I up both temp and infusion time.
today, i'm enjoying a YM fukamushicha from yame. i got this from den's tea at a tea festival last year. the owner is a very nice guy.
Did you end up opening that sencha koshun? I went through that quicker than anticipated.pedant wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 3:16 pmtoday, i'm enjoying a YM fukamushicha from yame. i got this from den's tea at a tea festival last year. the owner is a very nice guy.
i did, and i liked drinking it.
Did you try diluting the 'broth'?
It often shows me a different and more pleasing side of a difficult tea.
No, but on first attempt at brewing I used less leaf. Would there be a major difference between brewing 5g of leaf with 200ml of water versus brewing 10g of leaf with 200ml of water and then adding another 200ml of water to the tea?
Not necessarily. But if I feel I have overdone it with a particular infusion, instead of discarding or plowing through the unpleasant liquor, I try diluting a bit and then, if it is better, drinking that.
And next infusion I try shorter to avoid overdoing again.
And next infusion I try shorter to avoid overdoing again.
Sipping on a roasted sencha from Kagoshima Seicha Co (aka Birouen Tea House) that was specially made for me last year. Interestingly, I think it might be better now, almost eight months later. Bitter notes that were there before are gone. This special roasted sencha is not common and difficult to find. I had it a few years ago as a gift and loved it, so I asked them if I could get more. Unfortunately, they said they don't typically make it, so I later asked if they could make a special production of a few kilos, for a few friends. What I'm sipping on now was a sample they sent last year. Unfortunately, it wasn't as stellar as the one I'd had in 2018, more difficult to steep, thinner bodied and had bitterness in back even when steeped with cooler water. So we didn't place a larger order at that time. I'm still hoping either they make another special production soon, and or that I find another source. The delicate liquor now has notes of savory-sweet, buttery, roasted chestnuts and macadamia nuts, very unusual.