Yixing

[pantry]

Following up on this conversation, this is the seal on my pot, which I got ~8 years ago. It is different from both of those two. Note that since I took the pic with the pot on one side, the bottom of the seal is facing right, and the top is facing left. You need to turn your head to the left to read it upright.

Nice skin! So this is what the potter called XMY huangjin zhuni?, is that right?

[steanze]

Nice skin! So this is what the potter called XMY huangjin zhuni?, is that right?

Yes that's right

[OCTO]

That is some lovely clay there!

Yes it is pretty nice

+1

[alejandro2high]

Hey everyone. I hope you're all having a nice day.

So, I bought this vintage Ju Lun Zhu, and the spout was a little wonky. I decided to use a file to try and get it looking better. My perception is gone from working on it so much, so I can no longer judge whether it looks even/good. What do y'all think?

Cute fella. What makes you think it is vintage? The only official JLZ I am aware of are either antiques or contemporary, in between no JLZ were made, except the fakes... That does not really matter per se, just the concern is about the clay they used. People who do fakes usually do not concern themselves with more than to pass them on as real. Does the clay have tiny silver specs?

On the bright side, it looks more like one of those modern copies, rather than a semi-old fake

Why does QSN clay have silver specs? Also, why wouldn't any JLZ be produced in between modern and antique times? What would stop a random potter or studio from making a JLZ?

[pantry]

Why does QSN clay have silver specs? Also, why wouldn't any JLZ be produced in between modern and antique times? What would stop a random potter or studio from making a JLZ?

Wonder if it had to do with the fact that JLZ was first made for export to Japan. Then along came Nanjing...

[steanze]

Why does QSN clay have silver specs? Also, why wouldn't any JLZ be produced in between modern and antique times? What would stop a random potter or studio from making a JLZ?

Between 1958 and the early 1980s there weren't any random potters or studios - production of yixing teapots was monopolized by Yixing Factory 1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_One_Yixing_Factory). Factory 1 produced a fixed set of styles/shapes, there are catalogues and books. To my knowledge, they did not produce any Ju Lun Zhu shapes. Ju Lun Zhu shapes were popular during the ROC period, and have been produced again after the 80s-90s when other factories and studios beyond Factory 1 opened up.

[Bok]

Why does QSN clay have silver specs? Also, why wouldn't any JLZ be produced in between modern and antique times? What would stop a random potter or studio from making a JLZ?

I am no geologist, but that is one of the features of QSN.

F1 was a communist run, tightly controlled factory, in the early period there was the cultural revolution going on, no one would have dared to do anything out of the norm or on the side. Later there was more freedom in creating shapes, but there was no real private or on the side business until the 90s. Individualism is not something highly appreciated in Chinese culture. Also, what would be the incentive to create such a shape? At those times these shapes were not to be found in China, the antiques were only meant for export, not for the Chinese market. So they would not even have an idea what it looked like or that such a shape existed... only when China opened up and people started searching for antiques did it make sense to do so.

[Bok]

Why does QSN clay have silver specs? Also, why wouldn't any JLZ be produced in between modern and antique times? What would stop a random potter or studio from making a JLZ?

Wonder if it had to do with the fact that JLZ was first made for export to Japan. Then along came Nanjing...

Don't think that Nanjing had anything to do with that... on an interesting (without any implicated meaning or relativation intended!) side note: a lot of the Japanese soldiers at Nanjing were actually conscripted ethnically Taiwanese, many aboriginal tribes, as Taiwan was part of Japan at the time. they had successfully re-educated a large part of the populace to fully identify as Japanese > sidenote off <

[alejandro2high]

Why does QSN clay have silver specs? Also, why wouldn't any JLZ be produced in between modern and antique times? What would stop a random potter or studio from making a JLZ?

Between 1958 and the early 1980s there weren't any random potters or studios - production of yixing teapots was monopolized by Yixing Factory 1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_One_Yixing_Factory). Factory 1 produced a fixed set of styles/shapes, there are catalogues and books. To my knowledge, they did not produce any Ju Lun Zhu shapes. Ju Lun Zhu shapes were popular during the ROC period, and have been produced again after the 80s-90s when other factories and studios beyond Factory 1 opened up.

Is it 100% certain to nobody was producing pots between those times outside of factories?

The pot is from the 80s which fits the narrative, but I'm just curious as to all the info. I consider something from the 80s as vintage, but that just might be because of my age.

[Bok]

Is it 100% certain to nobody was producing pots between those times outside of factories?

It is pretty much certain, those rumors do pop up, but mostly they serve to justify otherwise impossible pots

The pot is from the 80s which fits the narrative, but I'm just curious as to all the info. I consider something from the 80s as vintage, but that just might be because of my age.

How do you know that? Has the pot been sold as such? Custom and out-of catalogue orders only appear 90s and later. I don't think the pot can be 80s, earliest is 90s in my view.

[Baisao]

@karma - I sure do, and you certainly may.

[alejandro2high]

Why does QSN clay have silver specs? Also, why wouldn't any JLZ be produced in between modern and antique times? What would stop a random potter or studio from making a JLZ?

I am no geologist, but that is one of the features of QSN.

F1 was a communist run, tightly controlled factory, in the early period there was the cultural revolution going on, no one would have dared to do anything out of the norm or on the side. Later there was more freedom in creating shapes, but there was no real private or on the side business until the 90s. Individualism is not something highly appreciated in Chinese culture. Also, what would be the incentive to create such a shape? At those times these shapes were not to be found in China, the antiques were only meant for export, not for the Chinese market. So they would not even have an idea what it looked like or that such a shape existed... only when China opened up and people started searching for antiques did it make sense to do so.

Thank you for all the info!

I was not aware of the history of JLZ. On the other hand, my pot does indeed have silver specs, so if this is an indicator of true QSN then I'm glad.

I got the pot from Daniel at The Chinese Tea Shop. It might be possible, in accordance to what you're saying, that the pot is from the 90s and not the 80s.

[Bok]

I was not aware of the history of JLZ. On the other hand, my pot does indeed have silver specs, so if this is an indicator of true QSN then I'm glad.

I got the pot from Daniel at The Chinese Tea Shop. It might be possible, in accordance to what you're saying, that the pot is from the 90s and not the 80s.

Then at least the source of the pot is not half bad. They have real antiques, so they will know what they are doing Vintage is a pretty flexible term anyways, as you said it depends on one's own age.

Good that it indeed has that extra glitter *****

[OCTO]

All right, thanks for your assessment. There are some pots that look similar to mine. At least how I remember it.
The last teapot should be a replica from the early 90s. It does not look like a cheap gift shop pot to me, but I now get it why you think it's not a F1 pot.

For example:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... 1781238325
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... 8144045690
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... 2471286596
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... 8165259694

Unfortunately, I don't have the pot with me, and I only got old pictures from bad angles. I'll check my teapot again after the corona crisis.

@Mark-S nice homework done...

The first 3 links are different pots compared to your pot. The first 3 are 200cc versions (smaller) of the larger one that you have.

For the last link, you have correctly pointed out that it's a replica because no pots come with the date carved / written at the base like that and more so in numerical form and name spelt out in alphabets. It would have been more convincing if they are in Chinese characters... hahahaha..... but then again during the Revolution era, no names are allowed to be branded on the outer surface of the pot. If there is such a the case, the potter faces an impending death sentence. That's why you often see names, if any, under the lid where it's hidden from plain sight.

Cheers!

[alejandro2high]

I was not aware of the history of JLZ. On the other hand, my pot does indeed have silver specs, so if this is an indicator of true QSN then I'm glad.

I got the pot from Daniel at The Chinese Tea Shop. It might be possible, in accordance to what you're saying, that the pot is from the 90s and not the 80s.

Then at least the source of the pot is not half bad. They have real antiques, so they will know what they are doing Vintage is a pretty flexible term anyways, as you said it depends on one's own age.

Good that it indeed has that extra glitter *****

Indeed. The biggest reason I bought the pot was Daniel's reputation.

PS. I also bought a 2010 King Arbor Sheng Pu'er from The Chinese Tea Shop that has great mouthfeel, nice age taste, and sweet bitterness at an affordable price.