Help With My Teapot

[steanze]

This one looks like normal modern yixing

How would you compare modern ‘yixing’ clay to contemporary Japanese shudei pots by Jozan etc. and or other European and American artisanal iron rich clays used by well known potters? In my opinion the later are more aesthetically pleasing to the eye

Most of the modern yixing on the western market is on the mid-low end of modern yixing. I find good modern yixing quite aesthetically pleasing:

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The two pots in the images are mid-level, the clay is good, the workmanship not too special.

Japanese clays are quite different in that they're not sandy clays, and can be thrown on the wheel. The style is also very different. I like Japanese pots too, but they are hard to compare, they are quite different things.

[Shane]

How about this other teapot that I have purchased? Is it at least useable clay?

[steanze]

How about this other teapot that I have purchased? Is it at least useable clay?

Hi Shane! This pot is better, looks like yixing clay the shape is quite nice too

[Shane]

Hi Shane! This pot is better, looks like yixing clay the shape is quite nice too

Cool Beans! What really annoys me is that this pot was $18 and the fake was $MORE...

[steanze]

Cool Beans! What really annoys me is that this pot was $18 and the fake was $MORE...

eh, I understand... it happens at the beginning. That's a starting point to learn though you'll get better pots going forward

[Atlas]

A real yixing pot wether it's old or new should look like unglazed clay. This one has an artificial plastic/resin look to it.

Could be slipcast...

OP, is there a divot where the handle connects to the body on the inside?

[Shane]

Could be slipcast...

OP, is there a divot where the handle connects to the body on the inside?

If you're referring to the first pot that I posted, then yes, there is a very faint divot on the inside where the top part of the handle attaches.

The second pot does not have this.

What gets me on the first pot, is, it looks like it's 2 different layers of clay. On the lid especially. I thought the outside was made to look different on purpose.

I cannot see any vertical lines on either pot which is evidence of a slip cast pot, correct?

[Atlas]

If you're referring to the first pot that I posted, then yes, there is a very faint divot on the inside where the top part of the handle attaches.

The second pot does not have this.

What gets me on the first pot, is, it looks like it's 2 different layers of clay. On the lid especially. I thought the outside was made to look different on purpose.

I cannot see any vertical lines on either pot which is evidence of a slip cast pot, correct?

That divot all-but-guarantees that it's slipcast.

Pretty sure the slipcasting process is also responsible for the difference between inside and outside of the pot - the outside appears polished because it interfaces with the plaster mould and forms a smoother surface, whereas the inside is just where the remaining slip has been poured off.

Seeing a bisecting seam almost guarantees that a pot has been slipcast, but seams can (and should) be removed before firing.

Take a look here if you're interested.

The clay might not be "great" by whatever metric because it doesn't make sense to use valuable clays for less-valuable pots, but the pot should be perfectly usable and I'm 99% certain it hasn't been adulterated.

[Shane]

It is hard to tell if the divot is because of the handle, it is not perfectly smooth on the inside.

Could it be made with a mold?

[Atlas]

It is hard to tell if the divot is because of the handle, it is not perfectly smooth on the inside.

Is the divot exactly in the center of where the handle attaches to the body? When you say it's not perfectly smooth, are you saying that the divot is only just perceptible?

Could it be made with a mold?

I presume you're talking about mould-assisted handbuilt, since slipcast by definition must use a mould.

I don't have the experience to say "no, it's definitely slipcast", but the three giveaways for me are the divot, the surface (level of shine and visibility of the sand), and the fact that the spout and handle have NO visible seam or imperfections at the points where they join the body.

Take a look at the album HERE. You'll need to look at it at full-res to see what I'm talking about. These are all half-handmade (ie mould-assisted hand-built) pots. The longdan and orange shuiping are modern. The purple-ish shuiping is late-90s made from "proper" zini, allegedly.

#1 - That is how flat the handle join point inside the pot should be for a pot that has been built from a slab of clay, rather than poured slip.

#2 - Note the joins - see how there is evidence of hand-work? The seams here aren't radiused so smoothly, so it's not a 1:1 comparison. Nonethelessif you look at the lower join (wrt photo), you can see where there are tiny work-lines where a tool has been used to smooth the join

#3 - Joins aren't radiused at all here, but note the tool marks

#4 - The joins on this one are radiused like yours, but see from the reflections/texture that they're not perfect - you can see where tools were used to smooth the join. Lack of tool-marks isn't definitive, by any means, but with the rest of it it's suspicious.

Also take a look at this photo from the yixing thread. I'm no expert, but I've never seen a handbuilt pot without some level of tool mark like this on the inside, and if you were to smooth it out with a sponge or rib, you'd just replace them with rings or other marks.

[Shane]

Is the divot exactly in the center of where the handle attaches to the body? When you say it's not perfectly smooth, are you saying that the divot is only just perceptible?

The top inside of the pot is uneven (not perfectly smooth) all the way around. Also, the divot is only very slightly noticeable. If I run my fingers along the top inside of the pot, it is not the most noticeable spot as far as how uneven it is inside.

and the fact that the spout and handle have NO visible seam or imperfections at the points where they join the body.

There are visible sponge marks at the spout, in addition to that, the yellow specks of sand are not as multitudinous where the spout joins the pot and where the handle joins.

Also take a look at this photo from the yixing thread. I'm no expert, but I've never seen a handbuilt pot without some level of tool mark like this on the inside, and if you were to smooth it out with a sponge or rib, you'd just replace them with rings or other marks.

I have tool marks inside as well. I will use my wife’s camera and take some high quality pictures. I am having difficulty with lighting, also my phone does not take the greatest pictures.

[Shane]

I don’t have an opinion on this pot yet, I’m not totally convinced that it is a fake, nor am I assuming that it is valuable, I’m simply trying to learn more about it so that I can come to a conclusion. It’s a fun process in my opinion.

[Atlas]

Yeah, I'd be interested to see some more detailed pictures. Interesting for sure!

[steanze]

I'm 99% certain it hasn't been adulterated.

Really? I've never seen natural yixing that looks like that. The effect is trying to imitate tiao-sha zini, a type of zini mixed with specks of yellow duanni that was made during the late Qing period. But that's not what real tiao-sha zini looks like, neither the one used during late Qing to ROC, nor the types of real tiao-sha zini made currently. I don't know of quite any type of yixing clay that would look like that unless you mix it with other stuff.

For reference, this is an example of real tiao-sha zini: http://www.marshaln.com/2016/09/yixing- ... -hen-mark/

[steanze]

Take a look at the album HERE. You'll need to look at it at full-res to see what I'm talking about. These are all half-handmade (ie mould-assisted hand-built) pots. The longdan and orange shuiping are modern. The purple-ish shuiping is late-90s made from "proper" zini, allegedly.

That black pot with red spots looks like heavily adulterated clay. I'd personally not use that for making tea. Natural yixing does not look like that.