Puzzled wannabe Yixing buyer

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steanze
Posts: 437
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:17 pm
Location: USA

Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:42 pm

faj wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:35 pm
Tetsubin and Baisao,

I understand there is no hard and fast answer to how good a slow pouring pot can be. It depends on many factors, including tastes and opinions.

But my question was the other way around : can a teapot pour too fast? Is there a reason to avoid fast pouring pots for some teas? Intuitively I would think the answer is "no", but the chart from steanze had me wondering if there is something at play I might not be aware of.
If a pot pours fast you can just tilt it less and get it to pour slower :)
faj
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:45 am
Location: Quebec

Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:16 pm

steanze wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:42 pm
If a pot pours fast you can just tilt it less and get it to pour slower :)
That seems self-evident, I know, but sometimes things that seem obvious aren't so. In a way, you kind of baited me into asking that question with your chart. Anyway, thanks for making me feel a bit dumb for asking... ;)

Thanks for the chart!
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Baisao
Posts: 511
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Location: Austin, TX

Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:43 pm

faj wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:57 pm
Thanks Baisao
Baisao wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:36 pm
Most Japanese leaf teas use a different brewing method than Chinese teas: low heat, not filled to the brim with hot water, dry pour.
Sorry for my ignorance, maybe it has to do with the language barrier (mine), but what do you mean by "dry pour"?
This thread, especially the first page, is probably a good enough explanation though a lot more can be written about it:

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=1167

Essentially, wet pour is a method of making tea that uses a lot of water to warm cups, preheat teapot, then reheating the teapot (ignoring evaporative cooling), etc. This is exclusively a gongfu cha way of preparing tea.

Dry pouring wastes less water and can be made on a flat, non-draining surface such as a senchabon. In gongfu cha it owes its style to the influence of the Japanese in Taiwan, as this is the way sencha is made.

Both methods work and have their devotees, but each also requires practice.

Wet pour example with a draining table:
Wet pour
Wet pour
2C2CE49D-6D20-40AB-A62A-97585E76F834.jpeg (585.58 KiB) Viewed 351 times

Dry pouring example on a senchabon (note there is no catchment for excess water)
Dry pour
Dry pour
F0D55734-4FAD-4A9A-8BAE-C28F12B8DED4.jpeg (555.72 KiB) Viewed 351 times
faj
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:45 am
Location: Quebec

Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:02 pm

Baisao wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:43 pm
Essentially, wet pour is a method of making tea that uses a lot of water to warm cups, preheat teapot, then reheating the teapot (ignoring evaporative cooling), etc. This is exclusively a gongfu cha way of preparing tea.

Dry pouring wastes less water and can be made on a flat, non-draining surface such as a senchabon. In gongfu cha it owes its style to the influence of the Japanese in Taiwan, as this is the way sencha is made.
Thanks @Baisao for the clarification,

I had a basic idea of the concept of dry/wet pour, just did not know this is what it was called. I am not a native English speaker, nor a native "tea" speaker... I wondered if "dry pour" had to do with how the tea was poured out of the teapot after infusion.

This is two dumb questions in a row, I am on a roll... ;)
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Bok
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Location: Taiwan

Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:23 pm

faj wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:02 pm
This is two dumb questions in a row, I am on a roll... ;)
There are no dumb questions when one is learning a new skill.
Dumb would be to assume, without asking questions.
DailyTX
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:43 pm
Location: Northern California

Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:39 pm

faj wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:46 am
tingjunkie wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:51 am
Wow, OP, you have trust issues! When shopping for Yixing, that's not such a bad thing. :lol:
tingjunkie, I am not sure I should trust your opinion on this matter. :D

I would say the person I trust the least in all of this is myself. Inexperience and all.
tingjunkie wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:51 am
I doubt you'll be able to trust it, but in my random-guy-on-a-forum opinion, get a vintage F1 from Emmet, or a new pot from Mud and Leaves.
I haven't personally bought from M&L yet, but I have emailed Patrick to ask a couple questions, and his customer service and passion for good clay are excellent and self-evident.
This is a recurring theme : many people recommend M&L, but I think I have yet to read about one single actual customer of theirs. I too have emailed Patrick, and my experience mirrors yours. Between that and their website, they seem to be talking the talk, I agree.
Looks like an exciting conversation over Yixing!
I picked this pot from M&L earlier this year:
https://www.mudandleaves.com/store/p389 ... 140ml.html
I have been learning about Yixing Zisha for a few years, mostly into Zini pots, until this year which I decided to explore other clays. The Benshan Lv ni had always been on my list, so I decided to purchase the above pot from M&L to start my journey as a beginner all over again. I cannot comment on the clay quality aside from it meets the word description of Benshan Lv Ni I could find online. The craftmanship does meet my expectation as an entry level pot with symmetrical design, a good balance handle, and high speed spout. The property of the clay tends to be muting tea flavor, so I have been using it for aged shu pu. Good luck with your first purchase, it's the gate into the Zisha rabbit hole. My first Zisha pot was given to me by a relative who's a pu erh collector about 5 years ago, now I got 20+ pots ;)
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OCTO
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Location: Penang, Malaysia

Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:39 am

Bok wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:23 pm
There are no dumb questions when one is learning a new skill.
Dumb would be to assume, without asking questions.
Very aptly said indeed.
.m.
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:26 pm
Location: Brno / Montreal

Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:14 am

faj wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:34 am
Unfortunately, I live quite far away from Montreal, where the is a Chinatown. I might go at some point in the future during a family trip, but not in the foreseeable future. There is a "serious" tea boutique in Quebec City (a branch of Camellia Sinensis) I went to (before beginning to research Yixing) that has a selection of teapots including a few Yixing pots : this is my only "hands-on" experience, and there were not many pots I felt drawn towards (most were too ornate for my taste). Purchasing online probably is my best bet right now.
You are not missing that much. I don't think i've ever seen in MTL chinatown a pot for sale that i'd call yixing zisha. Camellia Sinensis is a very nice place to discover different teas, but i'd probably not go shopping for yixing there (although you never know). Good luck with your explorations!
faj
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:45 am
Location: Quebec

Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:01 am

.m. wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:14 am
Camellia Sinensis is a very nice place to discover different teas, but i'd probably not go shopping for yixing there (although you never know).
Thanks for the feedback. If I am ever around Montreal's Chinatown, I will try to see what I can find, at this point seeing low quality pots would be of interest to me, just out of curiosity. I just would not travel there for that reason alone.

As for Camellia Sinensis, do you know it they have ever been discussed on this forum? I would like to get a feel for what to expect in relative terms if I were to shop elsewhere.
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Baisao
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Location: Austin, TX

Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:10 am

faj wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:01 am
As for Camellia Sinensis, do you know it they have ever been discussed on this forum? I would like to get a feel for what to expect in relative terms if I were to shop elsewhere.
I don’t recall them being discussed here.
Noonie
Posts: 150
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Location: Canada

Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:56 am

faj wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:01 am
.m. wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:14 am
Camellia Sinensis is a very nice place to discover different teas, but i'd probably not go shopping for yixing there (although you never know).
Thanks for the feedback. If I am ever around Montreal's Chinatown, I will try to see what I can find, at this point seeing low quality pots would be of interest to me, just out of curiosity. I just would not travel there for that reason alone.

As for Camellia Sinensis, do you know it they have ever been discussed on this forum? I would like to get a feel for what to expect in relative terms if I were to shop elsewhere.
On other forums, yes, but no in-depth discussions here that I’ve noticed. I live in Ontario and go to Montreal once a year and usually make a point of going to Camellia Sinensis. As a tea house, I’m very impressed. Last two years I’ve had the opportunity to visit NYC while on business and made a point of visiting 5-8 tea houses...some really good ones but I still prefer Camellia Sinensis. They have a good selection of tea wares. I do buy tea from them online, and find their tea to be of moderate quality and value. I’ve enjoyed their Sencha and Long Jing the most.

And this pot is from there and it’s great with my daily Sencha at work.
image.jpg
image.jpg (205.1 KiB) Viewed 264 times
faj
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:45 am
Location: Quebec

Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:15 pm

Noonie wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:56 am
They have a good selection of tea wares. I do buy tea from them online, and find their tea to be of moderate quality and value. I’ve enjoyed their Sencha and Long Jing the most.
Thanks @Noonie!

I would be curious to discuss further what other online stores you purchase from and how they compare, as that might help my explore other sources, but I guess this would be best done as a separate thread.
Noonie
Posts: 150
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Location: Canada

Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:27 pm

faj wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:15 pm
Noonie wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:56 am
They have a good selection of tea wares. I do buy tea from them online, and find their tea to be of moderate quality and value. I’ve enjoyed their Sencha and Long Jing the most.
Thanks Noonie!

I would be curious to discuss further what other online stores you purchase from and how they compare, as that might help my explore other sources, but I guess this would be best done as a separate thread.
No problem @faj

I don’t think it hurts to add a few sources here, though the vendor threads by type of tea is a great resource...for Japanese tea I like Thes Du Japon, Kettl, Maiko and O-Cha. For Pu’erh Yunnan Sourcing and Crimson Lotus. Message me if any specific questions as we’re both in Canada, eh!
swordofmytriumph
Posts: 350
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Location: Seattle, USA

Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:03 pm

Noonie wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:27 pm
for Japanese tea I like Thes Du Japon, and O-Cha. For Pu’erh Yunnan Sourcing and Crimson Lotus.
+1 for all these (have not yet tried Kettl and Maiko). I also like Yunnan Sourcing’s black teas, especially their golden bud type teas.

I’ll add to that list:
Taiwan tea crafts—gaoshan and taiwanese black teas
Tillerman tea—gaoshan
Floating Leaves tea—gaoshan
Tea Habitat—Dan Cong and some green teas (I have only tried their tasty green teas, but literally everyone on this forum recommends their Dan Long so I feel safe recommending)
Tea Spring—really nice Chinese green teas (and other tea from China but I have only tried their greens)
Hojo—(he sells a bit of everything, and everything I have tried from him has been excellent.)
Bitterleaf teas—puerh, also they have an excellent pressed white tea that I love

These and the ones Noonie recommended are all the ones I have ordered from before (all my regulars are on this list) and will not hesitate to recommend.
faj
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:45 am
Location: Quebec

Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:29 pm

Thanks a lot @swordofmytriumph and @Noonie,

Getting teas from other stores is something I really need to do. Feedback from people used in seeking quality tea is precious advice to avoid slowing down the discovery process by trying lower quality sources. I have safely saved your recommendations to a list I have created to keep track.

Lots of drinking ahead, it would seem...
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