KingTeaMall

Guy Juan
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Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:18 pm

I look forward to using my new yixing pot. It looks very nice and I’m sure it will hold hot water just fine. As long as there is no lead, arsenic, Mercury, cadmium etc. in it and it’s safe I’m happy.

I’ll post my thoughts after I do a fast break-in and run some of those puerh samples through it. I ordered quite a bit and some very recognizable teas like DaYi 7542 etc.

John also gave me some awesome tips....more like full instructional on how to break the pot in before first use. Super cool of him.
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pedant
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Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:09 pm

you're making me open up photoshop for this?!? :lol:
aet wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:12 pm
( just wet teapot is more glossy )
i think actually the surface is dry except for the parts i highlighted in blue.

i added red lines to show what i mean by shrinkage artifacts not produced simply by grit protrusion. hope that helps.

this is how i see it

zhuni.gif
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the outside of the KTM pot was rubbed smooth with cloth or sponge or something before firing, but it's more clear from this pic. see what i mean about the grains? i think the surface texture in this pot is achieved more by addition of material (partially protruding grit) to the clay than by shrinkage. or the clay was just gritty to begin with and material wasn't added. either way, it's my understanding that zhuni is smooth, dense, and plasticy before firing and not full of gritty material. or at least it doesn't have to be gritty to get that zhuni texture from high shrinkage. someone please correct me if i'm wrong!

Image

i think trying to make sense of it just by comparing a few online pics is pretty tough, but i tried
Guy Juan
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Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:41 pm

pedant wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:09 pm
you're making me open up photoshop for this?!? :lol:
aet wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:12 pm
( just wet teapot is more glossy )
i think actually the surface is dry except for the parts i highlighted in blue.

i added red lines to show what i mean by shrinkage artifacts not produced simply by grit protrusion. hope that helps.

this is how i see it


zhuni.gif


the outside of the KTM pot was rubbed smooth with cloth or sponge or something before firing, but it's more clear from this pic. see what i mean about the grains? i think the surface texture in this pot is achieved more by addition of material (partially protruding grit) to the clay than by shrinkage. or the clay was just gritty to begin with and material wasn't added. either way, it's my understanding that zhuni is smooth, dense, and plasticy before firing and not full of gritty material. or at least it doesn't have to be gritty to get that zhuni texture from high shrinkage. someone please correct me if i'm wrong!

Image

i think trying to make sense of it just by comparing a few online pics is pretty tough, but i tried
:shock:

Interesting...

So, if this is Hong Ni with something added...do you think they added iron? Or just a mix of whatever gravel was lying around and who knows what is in it?
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pedant
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Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:26 am

it's just my theory. i don't know what was added if anything, but that's just how it looks to me. also nowhere did i say that it's not a nice teapot :D
i'm just saying that it's not the same clay as lao zhuni and probably not even same as high end modern zhuni especially at that price
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aet
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Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:55 am

pedant wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:09 pm
the outside of the KTM pot was rubbed smooth with cloth or sponge or something before firing, but it's more clear from this pic. see what i mean about the grains? i think the surface texture in this pot is achieved more by addition of material (partially protruding grit) to the clay than by shrinkage. or the clay was just gritty to begin with and material wasn't added. either way, it's my understanding that zhuni is smooth, dense, and plasticy before firing and not full of gritty material. or at least it doesn't have to be gritty to get that zhuni texture from high shrinkage. someone please correct me if i'm wrong!
i think trying to make sense of it just by comparing a few online pics is pretty tough, but i tried
So if I get it right. The pot from KTM seems have those grains from some "whatever" particles in the actual clay but the other pot has grains more like caused by firing / shrinking clay in kiln , so the shape of those grains are more like lines rather than dots? The rough inside I've seen any many cheap teapots here in our market, yet I have no idea what odes it say about the clay ( apart of the sand grains ? don't know )
I'm really trying hard , but not getting any pattern ( guideline ) how would I distinguish this matter on other pictures , even in live if have teapot in hand.
But thanks for your time anyway. I will do my homework on that . Maybe have to make a journey to producers directly.
Thanks again!
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pedant
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Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:30 am

aet wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:55 am
So if I get it right. The pot from KTM seems have those grains from some "whatever" particles in the actual clay but the other pot has grains more like caused by firing / shrinking clay in kiln , so the shape of those grains are more like lines rather than dots?
that's my take on it, but take it with a grain of salt.

also, having particles inside doesn't make something not zhuni, but that pot is just so chock full of them, and i don't see other telltale shrinkage signs. that and the low price are what make me suspect the surface effect is actually mostly (all?) an attempt to mimic the zhuni texture. but if the clay seems real dense and has a bright metallic ring when you tap it, then maybe you can say it is zhuni after all?

btw, i kind of remember reading about a way to artificially make the 'muscle marks'. if anyone knows about that, can you explain?
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Tor
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Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:42 am

pedant wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:30 am

btw, i kind of remember reading about a way to artificially make the 'muscle marks'. if anyone knows about that, can you explain?
;)

jessepat84
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Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:02 am

Don’t mean to divert this thread further, but since it’s already turned into more of a modern zhuni discussion... here, two “modern zhuni” pots from my collection. Neither are from KTM, but might be useful for comparison. 🙂 Both are very dense and metallic-sounding, especially the darker red one (there is an actual colour difference, not just the lighting).

Otherwise I can’t offer much in terms of an expert opinion, but the others here seem to know their zhuni (I’ve never seen the older clay myself, just modern versions such as these).
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pedant
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Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:13 am

jessepat84 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:02 am
Don’t mean to divert this thread further
it's fine, discuss away. soon i will move most of the zhuni posts here to another thread because i think it will make the info easier to find later (and will link to it). also, i don't want KTM's entire discussion topic to be all about nitpicking some random pot on his site. seems a little harsh
Guy Juan
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Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:59 pm

pedant wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:13 am
jessepat84 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:02 am
Don’t mean to divert this thread further
it's fine, discuss away. soon i will move most of the zhuni posts here to another thread because i think it will make the info easier to find later (and will link to it). also, i don't want KTM's entire discussion topic to be all about nitpicking some random pot on his site. seems a little harsh
I think it’s good though. We should put all products from every vendor through the microscope. It’s nothing personal, just protecting and educating ourselves as consumers. As for moving the posts...maybe that makes the info harder to find for others. I know that when I come across info like this in a thread I continue reading. It sparks good questions and forces you to think and be more careful about what you purchase, marketing, vendor reliability etc. transparency can be a very good thing for a vendor. So can extreme ridicule. After all is said and done, it’s either what it’s advertised as or it isn’t. Good either way.
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Bok
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Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:09 pm

I can offer some perspective on the older clays, they rarely have this kind of grainy texture like the pictures above, they are almost completely smooth. I got old Zhuni and I got new Zhuni, the new one is equally very smooth and silky, with no inclusions at all! You find some old Zhuni with bits in it, but usually much larger pieces.

I got one which I suspect is made to look like Zhuni, with the above posted kind of texture.

High ring in itself is little revealing of the clay, more of the firing. If it is there it increases the probability, but does not prove it.

What in my opinion is very distinct to other clays and must be there, is how it feels to the touch. Kind of difficult to describe, unless you have handled a certified real one. It is a kind of wet smoothness, which is even discernible on the rougher looking inside areas of a teapot.

The second clear telltale sign is the dramatic change of hue the clay has once touched with hot water, from bright orange to dark almost purple red. If it hasn't that, it is quite likely not to be Zhuni. If it has it, it still might be high quality hongni(which Zhuni technically is anyways).
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steanze
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Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:09 pm

I just saw this thread, here is my perspecive:
1) the pots I've seen on this thread seem ok to use
2) the one posted by Baisao I would call modern zhuni
3) the other ones are too grainy/gritty (both the KTM one and the ones from @jessepat84 ) - they are modern hongni. Vendors call hongni "zhuni" all the time to make it appear more valuable. Still, they should be fine to use.
lopin
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Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:33 am

I have that shuiping too, in 90ml version. So far performs well. I use it for yancha. I have very little comparison but compared to porcelain gaiwan it produces tea that is less harsh. Also the clay soaked with tea smells very nice.
DailyTX
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Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:05 am

A Zhuni thread would be awesome! I'll add a photo of my modern zhuni pots as well. Two of them are cannon spout Ju Lun Zhu, one I used for young sheng Pu, and one for Taiwanese oriental beauty. The décor pot is just for the look :lol:
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Bok
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Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:26 am

DailyTX wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:05 am
A Zhuni thread would be awesome! I'll add a photo of my modern zhuni pots as well. Two of them are cannon spout Ju Lun Zhu, one I used for young sheng Pu, and one for Taiwanese oriental beauty. The décor pot is just for the look :lol:
Nice trio! The flower one looks a bit too red to be Zhuni. Unless it is Dahongpao Zhuni (which you would know due to the price), it is more likely hongni or zhuni-hongni-blend. I got one similar in tone from the 90s, which I suspect to be a hongni-zhuni-blend of sorts, quite typical to be found in Taiwan.
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