The role of tea description

[John_B]

A discussion about tea flavor wheels in a Facebook group led to discussing the role of tea description.

That implies "in tasting," and for some specific purpose, but I guess I mean in general, to consider why to describe tea (isolate flavor and other character aspects), versus just not doing that.

Before I get into background and tangents, what do you think, does it help to try to "break down" tea experience by description, or does it go against purely experiencing it without trying to analyze it? Or can both work for different purposes, per what you experience?

That thread on flavor wheels is here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/gongfuc ... 670465795/


Oddly I came out in favor of questioning if it really helps to describe tea, to explicitly try to communicate--or just understand for your own purposes--how a tea tastes, or what mouthfeel and aftertaste aspects are like. Part of that was a natural inclination to play the devil's advocate, but I really do struggle to place what it means, even though I write a lot of detailed tea reviews myself.

The last comment in that discussion probably works as well as any to re-summarize that, although it had moved on to considering if training to identify Asian-oriented flavors is important (Asian vegetables and fruits, floral scents, etc.):


It is hard to narrow down the assumed context, who would probably be using these. People training for a tea sommelier role would, and tea wheels and scent training kits should be useful for that. To clarify, as I'm commenting here it's not directed to people new to exploring tea, or not far through the path, sorting out general types and typical aspects, or even taking the first steps after that, exploring different and better versions.

There would be another broad range of people who are unusually interested in tea, with many years of extensive exposure, and whether or not they are selling tea would not be as important a distinction as it would first seem (in my judgment). That's more or less who I'm referring to, in relation to commenting that these people don't need to be intimately familiar with Asian food ingredients, with the local fruits and vegetables, and spices and flowers.

I also think that describing their experience of tea in relation to that level of break-down isn't important.

Of course that's a judgement call; the opposite opinion also works, that more exposure and analysis would be better, deepening appreciation and understanding of experiences, adding more reference levels for evaluation. It makes for an odd discussion point that someone with a moderate degree of exposure to these two only vaguely related sets of experiences (broad exposure to Asian foods, spices, flowers, etc., and extensive detailed tasting experience) would typically not ever have arrived there without valuing these things earlier on in exposure. Probably most often someone would be trained to value them, along with other levels of tea theme exposure. It would be hard to evaluate what it would be like experiencing teas from both perspectives, as trained in relation to description form and aspect distinction, or not, since someone would typically only have access to one form. Of course I'm only passing on one person's opinion anyway, based on moderate but substantial exposure, and I expect that people trained as tea sommeliers or "masters" wouldn't see the same concerns in the same way.

While I'm making an article of this post, I also mentioned there being an app for recording tea characteristics in a form similar to that presented in tea flavor wheels, and a really, really long blog post I wrote about that general subject, and "machine tasting" in general, which is something else entirely.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... .testggapp

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.co ... sting.html

[debunix]

The coffee flavor wheel is interesting, and a lot of that would easily apply to fine chocolate, but tea needs a differently calibrated wheel to match it starting as a leaf and not a seed or bean.

[.m.]

There is also the Kyarazen tea wheel: https://www.kyarazen.com/the-kz-tea-wheel/

What is quite striking how culture dependent these things are. While for example in the KZ wheel there are many flavors/scents quite unfamiliar to somebody in the west who isn't much versed in SE Asian cuisine and herbology, the coffee wheel on the other hand looks more like walk through a fancy western supermarket with tastes predefined by late 20th/early 21st century version of global capitalism.

[Ethan Kurland]

…. the coffee wheel on the other hand looks more like walk through a fancy western supermarket with tastes predefined by late 20th/early 21st century version of global capitalism.

Wheel of fortune?

Ordering a pack of an untasted tea is always taking a gamble no matter how much information one has. Near me a casino opened last week. Much more $ will be lost there again & again than the amount we might lose buying some tea. Moreover, we can experiment with parameters, teaware, & water to try to bring out what we like in leaves & tone down what we don't like; so a tea that is not ideal may still be worth drinking.

While tea description gets discussed here a fair amount, as a vendor I am not asked to describe teas much via PMs or emails. How people choose what to buy & who from, will always be somewhat of a mystery.

[Bok]

How people choose what to buy & who from, will always be somewhat of a mystery.

Some do research, some don't.

Some just buy whatever is conveninent.

Some follow the latest "tea-influencer".

Some just buy whatever looks/reads good.

Most buy whatever their budget allows or how much they esteem a tea should be worth.

Some buy whatever seems the most rare and special tea – as they are so special themselves


The reasons and reasoning behind a buying decision will be as diverse as people are...

[debunix]

Some get interested in a particular tea that is available from one vendor (couldn't find it elsewhere, or it was mentioned by someone who made it sound terrific, or whose tastebuds we know and trust).....and then buy a few other things from that vendor that may or may not be as terrific as what initially prompted the visit to the site (or brick & mortar store).

[aet]

While for example in the KZ wheel there are many flavors/scents quite unfamiliar to somebody in the west who isn't much versed in SE Asian cuisine

I live in south-west of China ( Yunnan ) , not sure if that counts "the west" , but be honest , we don't play any wheels here while tasting /choosing/comparing tea. I think this wheel stuff is actual "western" invention. I might be wrong , but certainly haven't come across anything like that in Kunming. And I have been to few , even commercial tasting shows where this such a thing could be expected , if exists here at the first place.

What I'm trying to point out here is, that too much exaggerating and science look like stuff going around the tea , when people don't even drink for pleasure and that comes the part when "Bok's" answer applies ( which I agree with ). So many people and so many reasons. In my personal observation the "special" one dominates and many those self claimed tea tasters / tea masters / tea sommeliers..or whatever other names are , are popping out on some FB, IG or personal blogs.

Some people drink tea, some drink story . I've seen both in practice and have a feeling that targeting the 2nd group is more profitable business. There is a genuine description of the tea from personal point of view written by excitement having a good cup of tea , or for definition purpose ( if commercial / sale ) to narrow down the selection.
There is also useless , long , overwhelming scribble compilation of thousands taste comparasments making look a writer as a professional tea drinker ( in eyes of beginners of course ) ....and plenty of it on steepster.
I've seen people describe some 5y old Xiaguan tuo cha with poetry for full page , the tea which I know of , doesn't last more than 5 steepings which are pretty much same ( smokey ) .

I believe that with purchasing tea , one should follow the simple logic as with purchasing anything else. Buy small and cheap from beginning , then move to to higher level. Make a tasting judgment by your self.

[.m.]

...

Some people drink tea, some drink story . I've seen both in practice and have a feeling that targeting the 2nd group is more profitable business. There is a genuine description of the tea from personal point of view written by excitement having a good cup of tea , or for definition purpose ( if commercial / sale ) to narrow down the selection.
There is also useless , long , overwhelming scribble compilation of thousands taste comparasments making look a writer as a professional tea drinker ( in eyes of beginners of course ) ....and plenty of it on steepster.

I completely agree. I do nevertheless believe that training one's palate and learning to distinguish different layers of favors and aromas may be a good exercise, especially for somebody aspiring to be a professional tea taster, and the wheel can be i think quite a helpful instrument for that.
My point above was that the spectrum of tastes is very cultural dependent (it is not just different approximation for similar tastes, but in fact quite different spectra), and is related very much to one's personal experience, as well as the person's sensorial capacities.
In this regard, I very much agree that one person's detailed description of the taste is quite useless to another person.
A general characteristic of the tea can on the other hand be very useful and say a lot about the tea. Things like dominant notes, bitterness, astringency, aroma, mouthfeel, aftertaste, strength and endurance, energy and effect on the body, etc.; the general structure carries a meaning even if the different components are perhaps experienced by different people in different intensities.

[debunix]

In this regard, I very much agree that one person's detailed description of the taste is quite useless to another person.

When I have read enough of one person's descriptions and drunk enough of the teas described, I can get a very good sense of what I will find in the described teas: there comes a point when I understand their palate well enough to know what my palate will find in thos teas. I ordered a lot of tea from Norbu early in my tea journey, and now I can order a completely unknown tea to me from his descriptions with very good confidence. I haven't gotten quite to that point with most other suppliers simply because I am ordering more widely now and don't order enough from any one source to have established that palate-to-palate correspondence.

Things like dominant notes, bitterness, astringency, aroma, mouthfeel, aftertaste, strength and endurance,

These definitely are useful to me from many different sources.

energy and effect on the body, etc.

This is mostly useless to me, perhaps because I tend to prepare my teas more dilute, and perhaps because I'm nearly always combining work, cooking, reading, or something else with my tea, and spreading out the infusions over enough time that I do not have as strong a focus on my bodily sensations.