Where Do You Go For High Quality?

[Guy Juan]

I’ve been ordering the most expensive teas from upton and teavivre hoping to get some decent quality teas, green mostly. Any suggestions for online ordering who is trusted for the highest quality? Hoping to find good vendors for Chinese greens, Japanese greens, oolongs and pu-erh. I really appreciate the whole spectrum from white to black to aged (haven’t tried the pu-erh yet.)

Also...
Been getting into tea after a long time in the world of coffee but running into a lot of confusion. With coffee, generally speaking, high altitude=higher and more flavorful acidity, there are main varietals such as bourbon, caturra, SL28/34 etc. and I know what to expect (generally) from each. Also, a good idea based on where it was grown.

My question is... it seems like every tea has something like 4 or 5 names. Then on top of that there is different spellings for each (like Biluochun, Bi Lo Chun, Pi Lo Chun). Are there certain words I should look for that will indicate the main varietals? How many main varietals are there? Like with wine you have cab sauv, Pinot Grigio, Merlot etc. I’ve seen a few for Chinese greens like Dragon Well, Biluochun, Long Jin. For Japanese I’ve seen Gyoruko a lot.

I do understand the difference between white, gree, oolong etc. just looking for some guidance on the rest.

Thanks!

[pedant]

I’ve been ordering the most expensive teas from upton and teavivre hoping to get some decent quality teas, green mostly. Any suggestions for online ordering who is trusted for the highest quality? Hoping to find good vendors for Chinese greens, Japanese greens, oolongs and pu-erh. I really appreciate the whole spectrum from white to black to aged (haven’t tried the pu-erh yet.)

hey, welcome to the forum. happy to have you here

you can check out the vendor forum if you like. as for specific recommendations...

i haven't ordered cn greens in a while, but i've had good experiences with www.lifeinteacup.com. perhaps others can chime in.

for jp greens, i can recommend www.o-cha.com (check out this tea in particular https://www.o-cha.com/20th.html?category_id=173) and www.thes-du-japon.com.

oolongs, hrm. pretty huge category. maybe read through viewtopic.php?f=13&t=13 and viewtopic.php?f=17&t=23

as for puerh, this recent topic might be of interest viewtopic.php?f=12&t=956

Also...
Been getting into tea after a long time in the world of coffee but running into a lot of confusion. With coffee, generally speaking, high altitude=higher and more flavorful acidity, there are main varietals such as bourbon, caturra, SL28/34 etc. and I know what to expect (generally) from each. Also, a good idea based on where it was grown.

My question is... it seems like every tea has something like 4 or 5 names. Then on top of that there is different spellings for each (like Biluochun, Bi Lo Chun, Pi Lo Chun). Are there certain words I should look for that will indicate the main varietals? How many main varietals are there? Like with wine you have cab sauv, Pinot Grigio, Merlot etc. I’ve seen a few for Chinese greens like Dragon Well, Biluochun, Long Jin. For Japanese I’ve seen Gyoruko a lot.

i don't know how to succinctly answer that. there are so many styles of tea, and many styles can be made from different cultivars.
you'll get there eventually, and there's always more to learn in this hobby.

i suggest just looking at what others are drinking for inspiration, trying new teas, and reading about them as you go. if the information is available, try to read up on which cultivar the tea you're drinking is made from, its terroir, etc.

good luck and enjoy the journey

edit: dragonwell = longjing which is a style of tea. there's a couple common cultivars. this is a great resource for learning about longjing: http://gingkobay.blogspot.com/p/discuss ... -jing.html

gyokuro is a style of tea that can be made from many cultivars.

[Bok]

Best strategy if you know little yet, is to order as much variety as you can get and afford and tune in on what you prefer. A lot of vendors sell sample sizes and sets, which is a good way to start. Be mindful that high quality in tea can be very expensive, more so than coffee. High price does not necessarily equal better quality though.

Tea is a very diverse and possibly confusing field, coffee is easy next to it. Think of it more as wine in terms of complexity.

Language barriers do not make it easier as the prime tea locations are in regions which do not use the alphabet or unified romanisation.

Try as much as you can and keep an open mind!

[HenrikM]

Hi, i am 30 year old guy living in Thailand enjoying my various tea's, mostly lipton however i have been looking around and there are so many choices these days, which teas would you recommend for me to look for? i dont mind spending a whole day searching for special tea's, hopefully you can guide me on some tea's which could be nice to try, i like a soft tea with a lot of taste and benefits health wise.

Thank you for your time!

[Rickpatbrown]

When I started, I had to randomly pick sample size amounts from large retailers that offer many types. Usually, these retailers have lower quality, but it's easier to get a survey of many different teas.

After trying many, I found it easiest to focus on 1 or 2 specific tea areas and read and drink all that you can. For example, I focus on Taiwanese high mountain oolong. Even with such a narrow focus, there are books and books written on the subject. After you learn how to learn about tea, it's easier to branch out.

In terms of green tea. O-cha and yukki-cha are two places to get high quality Japanese greens.

Do you have anyone around where you live to teach you about tea? You're education will go 10 times as fast compared to just randomly buying internet tea like I did.

[There is no self]

On the topic of names: right now the only people employing a correct (and most of all, consistent) translitteration system are linguists; everyone else does at they please. Changes in voiced/voiceless consonants (d/t, b/p) and open/closed vowels (o/u) shouldn't bother you: Bi Luo Chan and Pi Lo Chan are the same tea, and so are Dong Ding and Tung Ting.
As for the meaning, online vendors usually follow English syntax, so the most common* order is place of origin - description/specifics - varietal. For example: Phoenix Village "Mi Xiang" Shui Xian Oolong tea --> a Mi Xiang version of the Shui Xian varietal of oolong tea, cultivated in Phoenix Village.

The only other real advice I can give you is to invest in a porcelain gaiwan, so you can be sure to taste the actual flavour of the tea. Your taste buds won't care for names, whatever script they're written in.


*Disclaimer: "common" by no means equals "standard".

[Tillerman]

For example, I focus on Taiwanese high mountain oolong. Even with such a narrow focus, there are books and books written on the subject.

@Rickpatbrown I am unaware of any books (in English) that have been written on this topic and I desperately would like to find some. Do you have suggestions? Titles of books in Chinese also very welcome! Thanks, David

[Guy Juan]

Thanks everyone. I am using a temp controlled kettle and a glass “flute brewer” which works awesome for greens and oolongs so far. It’s for gong fu brewing but it’s 200ml so I ordered a 100ml cheap porcelain gaiwan. I am waiting for it to arrive to give the gyokuro and my Pu-erh a shot. Haven’t found a red clay pot yet.

I tried something from upton called Hong Cha Mao Feng. Not too into that particular one whatever it was.

Been loving the “Pi Lo Chun” as upton calls it. That was good stuff. Tasted a nice chicken broth type undertone. Ordered some from Teavivre to compare.

Tea is very much like coffee. Different flavor profiles based on varietal, region, soil, altitude, rainfall, shade, processing method, grind, water temp, ratio etc. very different flavor but same principals. I’ve explored $200lb coffees, some of them exceptionally unique and fantastic and hope to find the equivalents in tea. I guess that would equal something like 180g of tea for $200 but you would get multiple cups out of every 6 gram portion so divide by number of cups and you bring that price way lower. Looks like tea may be easier on the wallet But all things equal price never guarantees that you will like something or even that it’s better quality. I know this all too well. Everything from cars to coffees to clothes and tea.

I found some suggestions from searching around in teachat (RIP) which led me to this forum. The mods suggested I check the “Vendors” section for high quality teas but that just seems silly considering they are TRYING TO SELL THE TEA! And I could not find the info I was searching for.

Here are the teas I have coming:
Biluochun
Xing Yang Mao Jian
Yun Nan Dian Hong (Black)
Lu An Gua Pian
Tai Ping Hou Kui

I’ll post back on my first impressions.

[Rickpatbrown]

For example, I focus on Taiwanese high mountain oolong. Even with such a narrow focus, there are books and books written on the subject.

Rickpatbrown I am unaware of any books (in English) that have been written on this topic and I desperately would like to find some. Do you have suggestions? Titles of books in Chinese also very welcome! Thanks, David

Sorry. I was speaking figuratively. I have not searched for books, since I assume they would be in Chinese. Maybe Bok knows better.

[Bok]

I have not searched for books, since I assume they would be in Chinese. Maybe Bok knows better.

I have found books on tea generally a futile effort... tea is different each season and taste profiles are best -ahem- tasted, rather than read about, too subjective. Same reason I avoid describing tea tastes, or read those of others, it is anecdotical at best...

Tea history or processing is another thing entirely, yet probably of little help for the enjoyment of the tea itself.

@Tillerman Next time you are in Taiwan you should check out the Eslite bookstores (one of the bigger outlets is best), they usually have a section of tea related publications. Not sure though if any of them is worth the paper it is printed on. Your Laoshi has published books as well if I am not mistaken. There is one shop in Taipei with a large selection of tea-related books and tea and teaware. Forgot its name, need to look it up.

The global tea huts publications which can be downloaded once they are old, are probably the only English-language source with some sort of helpful information – if one can blend out the sectarian-culty-mindful-bliss-of-being-one-with-tea haha

[aet]

depends how do you define "High Quality" . I have noticed that many tea drinkers have different understanding of it. High grade ( usually comes with high price ) doesn't have to always correspond to the high quality. processing , storage..etc. few factors might be wrong , so all comes down to actual personal tasting. Green tea is usually up-priced the most , since it's a hard seller. Have only 6 months of the best and another 6 months of good ( in my experience this is the opinion of majority green tea drinkers ) . Then next year you have to put some serious discount even if tea is well stored and still have some balls. Green tea buyer just want "fresh" all the time , so vendors have only short time to make some money on it , before giving away for cheap or less expected margin.
I would suggest to google more, "dont give up on 2nd page" , use various equivalent key words "country of origin" "particular names of green tea" ...etc.
When find a vendor, try samples . Learn by comparing between the vendors also within a vendor's shop. Buy a same tea new and discounted to get an idea how good / bad they store tea. You might also find out that some greens are actually better year after.
Names: yes, in China we use local names. Like Snow Dragon would be Xue Long for example, Sometimes much longer like u said, 3 names and more. Like Yin Si - "silver needles" or Yu Luo - "jade screw" and if you put an expression Dan Ya - "single tips" before or after it, you will get the highest grade of this tea. Usually the tea name is bounded with it's appearance but in order to distinguish location of production, the name of the place can be used in name as well. Like Lincang, Pu'er etc.
Writing comes from Chinese pinyin which is mostly 2-4 letter words Bi Luo Chun ...etc. , some vendors translate it into the English like Jade Spirals / snails ..etc. Some vendors ( usually westerners ) connect the words like "meng hai " Menghai ...
Don't try to memorize it, it will just annoy you
Some new names also emerging due to the marketing and you might find out same tea with 2 or more different names just because slight differences in amount of tips or something like that;-)
Search for the vendor who is dedicated to the green tea more than other teas have in offer. You might check the background , if any blogs about green tea or videos made and so on. I think Ive seen some French vendor who has kind of big selection of JP green and seems to be very in to this.
I would love to help you more but I'm not much green tea drinker, just have a general knowledge.

[Ethan Kurland]

. The mods suggested I check the “Vendors” section for high quality teas but that just seems silly considering they are TRYING TO SELL THE TEA! And I could not find the info I was searching for.

To be honest, this thread concerns me slightly. A few times a year someone comes seeking advice and is very generously advised and then is gone. One might wonder what it was all about really. Yet, I respond.

Of course, vendors try to sell their tea. I mention mine frequently here. But I don't think anyone here has a business nor a catalog like Upton's. Some vendors (not me) have lots of knowledge & seriously study what they specialize in & offer lots of information. Some vendors only sell the best & better teas of all that they sample. Perhaps some only sell what they drink themselves & perhaps some people only drink excellent tea ("Life is too short to drink bad tea." has been written in this forum by many)

Reading my list of teas on my thread in vendors section, I see that I do not always mention altitude (& some heights are 200m off, I'll correct that soon) & that I usually don't list cultivars. This may not suit someone on a quest that might require knowing about teas encountered more than getting the best tea. This worries me in general, not just for you. A vendor may have a wonderful tea to sell. Why or how he got it, why that tea is so delicious--does it matter really?

( I had lived in an apartment below someone who was involved in Equal Exchange early on; & he told me about discussions & sometimes bitter arguments that EE's people at the top had about which coffees to source. They considered everything around the coffee more than they did the flavors.)

More to your reference of your experience with coffee being compared to tea, the very best coffee from Columbia tastes to me like almost all of the coffee from the Boliven plateau of Laos. There most of the coffee was organic because for so long there was no money for fertilizers & pesticides which were not needed for a profitable yield anyway. There the farms are not easily accessible & there is no hotel comfortable enough for organizations that might come to certify the coffee as organically grown. That coffee that is most delicious (though not "exceptionally unique and fantastic") didn't have the labels that some people want to see because people of the certifying organizations could not fly to a nearby airport & sleep in a 3-star hotel.

Back to your quest. You can talk on the phone with some vendors to help you decide whether you should try some of their products that they "are trying to sell". I believe one good man has listed his phone # once. I know much less than he does but do offer a few of the best teas & could put together..… # 617...……….. I think I'll wait.
My heart would be broken if I put it here and no one called.

Cheers

[There is no self]

Back to your quest. You can talk on the phone with some vendors to help you decide whether you should try some of their products that they "are trying to sell". I believe one good man has listed his phone # once. I know much less than he does but do offer a few of the best teas & could put together..… # 617...……….. I think I'll wait.
My heart would be broken if I put it here and no one called.

Cheers

Kinda OT here, but if it weren't for the price of intercontinental calls, I'd love to have a chat with you. You strike me as a kind and balanced person, perhaps one of the kindest I've ever met on the Internet.

@Guy_Juan, I get what you're saying but I can assure you that most (if not all) vendors mentioned on the forum (in the vendor section or elsewhere) are well worth your time and money. Of course, as aet said, quality can be subjective. You can learn a lot about different flavour profiles by reading the "what X are you drinking" threads.

[Baisao]

One might wonder what it was all about really. Yet, I respond.

This! And it's one of the main reasons I've been modest as a contributor. The other reason is that I have little to say that can't be learned by just sitting with tea. Why should I say anything at all if I believe in my heart that the journey is so personal?

Reading my list of teas on my thread in vendors section, I see that I do not always mention altitude (& some heights are 200m off, I'll correct that soon) & that I usually don't list cultivars. This may not suit someone on a quest that might require knowing about teas encountered more than getting the best tea. This worries me in general, not just for you. A vendor may have a wonderful tea to sell. Why or how he got it, why that tea is so delicious--does it matter really?

Cultivars and terroir matter to me. Foremost, the tea must be delicious. However, I do want to know specifics regarding a tea's origin: cultivar, location, date range of the harvest. These details help me decide if another tea is something I might want to try. For example, If I had a bad experience with a tea that picked within weeks after a newsworthy rain event, I'll avoid buying teas that were picked after newsworthy rain events. Or if a cultivar is known for having certain characteristics, then I'll be all the more certain to appreciate how those characteristics are presented in that specific tea.

[Noonie]

I have not searched for books, since I assume they would be in Chinese. Maybe Bok knows better.

The global tea huts publications which can be downloaded once they are old, are probably the only English-language source with some sort of helpful information – if one can blend out the sectarian-culty-mindful-bliss-of-being-one-with-tea haha