Rethinking the appropriate size of pots

[d.manuk]

Hi all,

I recently saw someone brew an oolong in an interesting way.
She used a larger pot (about 250 ml) but only filled it up with about 120ml of water and 6g of leaves. This allow the leaves to unfurl fully, much more so than if you were brewing oolong with 6g in a 130ml pot. I was wondering what the pros and cons are of doing it this way. I always thought I should brew in a 120ml or so pot for oolongs (and I use 6g) for a single person but her way the leaves were so much more open that I think I could see the benefits of doing it her way. Maybe this can be applied to other types of tea as well.

What do you think?

[Victoria]

Was the oolong very green, requiring cooler steeping temperature?

Great question to experiment with and get different steeping results. I also steep oolong with very similar proportions to yours. I don’t think there is a right way to steep, since we can modify brewing in relation to vessel/ water/ temp etc. Different methods will just yield different results, vis a vis each steep. With most rolled oolong very hot water is preferred, so a covered bowl is better to retain heat. Vessel size will effect multiple steeping results; with a smaller pot -oolong will unfurl more slowly saving flavor into later steeps, with a larger pot -leaves will unfurl more quickly offering more flavor up front. Some oolongs require more space in vessel for steeping; FuShoushan’s thicker leaves need more space to unfurl and fully release components. Gyokuro is steeped at very cool temperature in a shiboridashi, which is basically a wide low bowl with a lid.

I have heard that in Taiwan many farmers use bowls to steep teas, although have not seen this myself. I did though see Theresa at T Shop steep sheng in an open bowl, very interesting to see her do this. With teas that use cooler temperatures, it would make sense to experiment steeping in an open bowl. The open bowl would release full aromatics more quickly too.

Here is a post from LA Tea Club with Theresa at T Shop using an open bowl with sheng.

23881A4C-47ED-46D4-8B16-ECE5A01738E4.jpeg (207.98 KiB) Viewed 8365 times

[Ethan Kurland]

I like looking at the pearls' movement in a bowl as hot water is poured into it and at the water gaining color. Most interesting is how many infusions it takes for the pearls to unfurl; how some pearls unfurl much before others; and, how the leaves spread and become larger.

Victoria, you do know your teas. The foushoushan do expand so much! I was using a modest amount of pearls in a tiny pot; yet, I still need to work with a tool (finally got use out of the wooden pick & curved.....) to empty the pot.

We seem to want to fill our teapots (and thus have an excuse for owning lots of sizes)....There is usually a way to make good use of whatever is at hand. When using a bowl, I use water that is slightly hotter.

[thetealetter]

My first yixing purchase was a 180mL pot. I was inexperienced so I didn't realize just how much volume that is for someone like me, who's usually drinking alone. As a result, the pot didn't get used a whole lot. Then, someone said to me: "why don't you just fill it halfway?" It was like being struck by a lightning bolt. I didn't know I could feel so inspired and yet so stupid at the same time.

Silly stories aside, I tend to drink a lot of rolled oolong. I find what Ethan said above to be basically true--tightly packed leaves sustain many steeps, whereas leaves with more space will offer up strong flavor but taper off much quicker, maybe in as few as 3-4 steeps in some cases. Mix and match according to your own taste. Do, observe, correct!

[d.manuk]

Was the oolong very green, requiring cooler steeping temperature?

Great question to experiment with and get different steeping results. I also steep oolong with very similar proportions to yours. I don’t think there is a right way to steep, since we can modify brewing in relation to vessel/ water/ temp etc. Different methods will just yield different results, vis a vis each steep. With most rolled oolong very hot water is preferred, so a covered bowl is better to retain heat. Vessel size will effect multiple steeping results; with a smaller pot -oolong will unfurl more slowly saving flavor into later steeps, with a larger pot -leaves will unfurl more quickly offering more flavor up front. Some oolongs require more space in vessel for steeping; FuShoushan’s thicker leaves need more space to unfurl and fully release components. Gyokuro is steeped at very cool temperature in a shiboridashi, which is basically a wide low bowl with a lid.

I have heard that in Taiwan many farmers use bowls to steep teas, although have not seen this myself. I did though see Theresa at T Shop steep sheng in an open bowl, very interesting to see her do this. With teas that use cooler temperatures, it would make sense to experiment steeping in an open bowl. The open bowl would release full aromatics more quickly too.

Here is a post from LA Tea Club with Theresa at T Shop using an open bowl with sheng.
23881A4C-47ED-46D4-8B16-ECE5A01738E4.jpeg

This post was inspired by when I came to visit you for tea.
It recently came to mind when I was brewing some oolong grandpa style.

[Victoria]

This post was inspired by when I came to visit you for tea.
It recently came to mind when I was brewing some oolong grandpa style.

Ha that is hillarious. I remember now steeping the FuShoushan in my 350ml Jozan III, leaving plenty of room for the leaves to unfurl and only filling up with 200ml water.

Ethan, have you seen farmers in Taiwan brewing with open bowls very often?

[Tillerman]

Hi Victoria, I have often seen brewing in open bowls throughout Taiwan, but only when brewing for evaluation purposes, not when brewing for a tea drinking session. My laoshi however almost always brews in a porcelain tasting mug; I don't believe I've ever seen him use a clay pot (rarely a porcelain pot.)

[Brent D]

Great topic!
I have often pondered this myself. I drink a lot of gaoshan, so the unfurling of the leaves is really effected by size. I have made some teas in pots too small and had the leaves never fully open. I always make shu in a pot that’s too big and I only fill it halfway. I’ve often wondered how this effects the heating of the pot. The top half would cool much quicker and draw heat from the lower half, effectively cooling the whole pot quicker. Probably no discernible effect but I still wonder.
For these reasons I bought a solid silver pot at 160ml. I think it’s perfect for what it is. Enough room to let everything open up, and silver conducts heat so well that I feel just bathing it in hot water warms the entire pot adequately.

[gatmcm]

Lately I've been gravitating towards bigger pots, I feel its less of a question of how much the leaf can unfurl but more of a question of how much is the point of saturation of a set amount of water of the compounds the leaf releases, I feel there is a point in terms of number of steeps where the brew wont change significantly whether you give it 5 minutes or 30 (apart from temperature in the cup).
There is also the question of how much leaf you can actually cram into a very small pot, where the leaf opening up is more of an issue, I have a small 60ml zini I used to use for semi aged sheng that I since allocated for high roast oolongs, when brewing with a lot of leaf it seems to be a maximum point of extraction, after it pewters out to a medium point where it remains for a seemingly unlimited amount of time/steeps.
Another important aspect in my opinion is that the 4-6g of pu I can get in the 60ml just isn't enough in my opinion for the feeling you can get for 8-10g, though the flavour might be similar the raw amount of compounds will be higher for more leaf, have a 120ml zini on its way hope I don't change my mind

[Ethan Kurland]

Ethan, have you seen farmers in Taiwan brewing with open bowls very often?

I have not seen bowls used at farms. I have only been at farms a few times. I have been with farmer/producers in Tainan (not counting my main source) and bowls were used a few times for enjoyment and other times for assessment. Mostly yixing teapots were used; but, according to them not much attention if any was paid to the type of clay etc. Yet, they did not just grab a pot from several several available pots at their tea station. They chose specifically. It is quite amazing how familiar and comfortable some people are with their teaware and preparation, conducting business and socializing while preparing tea perfectly. I do notice that they often touch teaware with a finger; this type of measurement only gives me burned fingers, not perfect tea!

[Bok]

but, according to them not much attention if any was paid to the type of clay etc.

I noticed that as well! People go crazy about old Yixing pots, yet it seems not be because of certain clay-tea-pairings. The people who seemed to care the least are the farmers, followed by shop owners. At least in my humble experience.

I also only see the bowl style for evaluating teas, not for enjoying tea in itself. Often to check on the need to re-roast for tea that is being aged.

[OCTO]

I noticed that as well! People go crazy about old Yixing pots, yet it seems not be because of certain clay-tea-pairings. The people who seemed to care the least are the farmers, followed by shop owners. At least in my humble experience.

The craze about vintage Yixing pots is mainly due to the positive results one gets from a good tea & pot pairing. IMO clay back then is more authentic and you don’t find funny mixed clays passed off as HongNi or ZiSha. It doesn’t mean new world clays are not good, it’s a matter of personal preference on this. I have came across some new world clays that’s pretty good with tea. Again vintage clays would have a higher collection value. Many artist back then would put more emphasis and heart in to making a good pot using good quality clay. Sadly many young artists these days are only looking at profitability. Their limited access to high grade clay drives them to blending clays to pass off as original. Chemicals and colorings added is not good for consumption.

Good farmers will want and need to know the unadulterated taste of the tea. That can only happen by using porcelain or glass. Not sure how it’s done in Taiwan.

My 2cents.

Cheers!

[Bok]

Good farmers will want and need to know the unadulterated taste of the tea. That can only happen by using porcelain or glass. Not sure how it’s done in Taiwan.

Same in Taiwan. Mostly gaiwan or the competition cup set. What I was referring to is that other than for those evaluations, I have seen a lot of professionals who when brewing for themselves seemed to care very little for the vessel itself (or maybe as Ethan said, it has become such a habit, that it seems that way), often using nondescript off the rack pots. Yet the tea tastes wonderful.

[tealifehk]

Here in Hong Kong, a few of my dealers only use Green Label or older Factory 1 pots for sessions. One dealer exclusively uses hongni, even for the oldest pu erh! The other family use 140ml shuipings for high fire oolong, and I've done the same ever since they introduced me to brewing gongfucha with high fire oolongs.

In Taiwan, I have only seen gaiwans and cheap clay pots used, but those doing the brewing had so much skill that even with the best of teaware, I can't brew as well as they can!

[Ethan Kurland]

Coming back to this thread while traveling without teapots which helps me understand what matters in preparation.

Reminded of the obvious: Don't use materials for brewing that add something, such as the taste of aluminum; leaves open and perform better with wide vessels. Bok and others often mention that lots of pots look great but are too narrow. Using cups to brew lately, I notice the negative height to width ratio does hurt the results.

Thickness of vessels seems unimportant. If I am using a bowl, I can put a saucer over it, but loss of flavor for use of bowls does not seem to be a problem without a lid.

Cheers