Tips for a beginner? (Switching from coffee)

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mbanu
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Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:59 pm

ChihuahuaTea wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:07 pm
I’m not adverse to a sweetener like agave or honey, but I wonder if this would impact my ability to appreciate the tea.
I realize I missed an important point! Tea is very versatile -- it can be processed for drinking on its own, but can also be processed to be used as a condiment. What I mean here is that some tea is made with the expectation that it will be added to something else. There are teas that taste excellent when milk is added that are almost undrinkable plain. This is not due to poor quality, but an intentional design, sort of like how someone might serve tomato soup as part of a meal but would not expect someone to drink a bottle of ketchup as a meal, even though both are made out of tomatoes. If you are worried about the ability to appreciate the tea, the thing to do is to try to find out how the tea-maker imagined you would be drinking their tea. If the answer is "with honey", then don't feel even slightly uneasy adding honey, as you are just providing what the tea-maker could not provide with the tea itself.
ChihuahuaTea
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Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:58 pm

Great tips.

Going to keep researching what a lot of this means and keep learning.
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bentz98125
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Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:57 am

I know that when first discovering the world of tea the scale of what you don't know is overwhelming. A comprehensive guide answering your question could easily constitute an entire book. Rather than a definitive answer, random aspects of my experience might be encouraging. Unpredictability is the essence of discovery and discovery drives evolution . The chances that your tea drinking of ten years from now will be identical to what you start off with may well be nil. The flavor of coffee may be bigger and bolder than many families of tea with layered, subtle, delicate flavors. Accordingly i find big bold taste of Japanese umami to be better than coffee first thing in the morning. When I first started i thought I'd never be able to brew and drink on the fly but now I claim to be able to do so in almost any situation. All I need is a hot water source (thermos or even better a convection portable electric tea kettle with different preset temperatures) a cheap Bankoyaki gaiwan, and a ceramic cup. Tea leaves into preheated gaiwan, pour 150-165F water (depending on tea and 1st, 2nd, 3rd steep) into gaiwan, leave for 50 to 90 seconds (depending on tea or which steep), pour into cup, done. The cup can rest on top of the gaiwan and both can be carried and set down anywhere with one hand while it is still brewing. This is not the type of precise brewing done while focused in a Zen like trance. It is quick and flexible. Since bitterness is likely more objectionable to novices a good rule of thumb is to err on the side of cooler rather hotter water with the added insurance that if distracted, overbrewing does less damage at lower temperatures than higher. This risk of too hot water diminishes with each successive steep. The second rule of thumb is to learn to embrace the flavor of tea at any temperature. The forgotten cup or steep not remembered until the water has cooled is not wasted. It still tastes great! Good luck.
ChihuahuaTea
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Sat Jun 18, 2022 3:47 am

So much good advice…

I’m thinking grandpa style would work for my situation.

I never considered the idea of just letting leaf’s sot in the cup loose and then refilling the hot water of the course of an hour or whatever, but I can do that.
ChihuahuaTea
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Sat Jun 18, 2022 3:55 am

Ethan Kurland wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:54 am
....

I think a quality electric variable temperature kettle & a teapot w/ small holes to prevent leaves pouring out with your drink is better teaware for you. Put the mesh teabags in the closet. The kettle will keep water at the temperature you have found to be ideal for the leaves you will steep. (For the black tea that I drink, Championship Black, I use water that is 96C. I know others use water from as low as 92C & as high as boiling.) I use a Bonavita kettle. There are other brands & threads about electric kettles you can study here.
.
So this is actually a good plan as well.

I guess where i got confused was whether this works well with keeping the leaves in the hot water for an hour or so?
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debunix
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Sat Jun 18, 2022 10:04 am

The electric kettles that we are discussing are used only to heat water. You would never use leaves in them. They’re not designed for straining the leaves, or being cleaned easily afterwards.
ChihuahuaTea
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Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:15 pm

bentz98125 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:57 am
I know that when first discovering the world of tea the scale of what you don't know is overwhelming. A comprehensive guide answering your question could easily constitute an entire book. Rather than a definitive answer, random aspects of my experience might be encouraging. Unpredictability is the essence of discovery and discovery drives evolution . The chances that your tea drinking of ten years from now will be identical to what you start off with may well be nil. The flavor of coffee may be bigger and bolder than many families of tea with layered, subtle, delicate flavors. Accordingly i find big bold taste of Japanese umami to be better than coffee first thing in the morning. When I first started i thought I'd never be able to brew and drink on the fly but now I claim to be able to do so in almost any situation. All I need is a hot water source (thermos or even better a convection portable electric tea kettle with different preset temperatures) a cheap Bankoyaki gaiwan, and a ceramic cup. Tea leaves into preheated gaiwan, pour 150-165F water (depending on tea and 1st, 2nd, 3rd steep) into gaiwan, leave for 50 to 90 seconds (depending on tea or which steep), pour into cup, done. The cup can rest on top of the gaiwan and both can be carried and set down anywhere with one hand while it is still brewing. This is not the type of precise brewing done while focused in a Zen like trance. It is quick and flexible. Since bitterness is likely more objectionable to novices a good rule of thumb is to err on the side of cooler rather hotter water with the added insurance that if distracted, overbrewing does less damage at lower temperatures than higher. This risk of too hot water diminishes with each successive steep. The second rule of thumb is to learn to embrace the flavor of tea at any temperature. The forgotten cup or steep not remembered until the water has cooled is not wasted. It still tastes great! Good luck.
Amazing
I’m picturing you on a subway with a gaiwan and a thermos brewing up a tea on the fly like it’s child’s play and thinking nothing of it!

Any recommendations for online ordering of umami?
ChihuahuaTea
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Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:25 pm

debunix wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 10:04 am
The electric kettles that we are discussing are used only to heat water. You would never use leaves in them. They’re not designed for straining the leaves, or being cleaned easily afterwards.
Yeah that’s what I have. I temperature control one, has a few options, auto shut off, I payed like $60 for it.

I have been using it like a coffee pot though, brewing a tea in the pot. I have been using tea bags though so the straining wasn’t necessary and clean up is pretty simple.

I’m liking the idea of grampa style though
ChihuahuaTea
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Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:03 pm

LOL

1st go at grandpa style = fail!

Tried a black tea. It all floated to the top. Wasn’t fun

My wife warned me.
Wife: What are you doing?
Me: grandpa style, I only drink grandpa style these days, duh!
Wife: that won’t work, it’s all going to float to the top and you will sip it
Me: you don’t know what you are talking about! This is my thing
Wife: ok
Wife 5 minutes later: I told you so!

LOL
ChihuahuaTea
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Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:23 pm

Ok, so the more I am reading, something that never dawned on me was the idea of an intermediary vessel to steep the tea

I always viewed it as:
Kettle that you heat, that’s where the tea goes
OR
Tea bag in your cup and add hot water

But the concept of a tea pot to put the loose tea (I would put it in a bag for cleanup),
Add the hot water for a quick steep
Then pour into the cup…

Never even realized this was a possibility, and was intimidated by the suggestions (gaiwan tyle ideas that seem messy and a lot of work and not realistic for my situation)

I’m now thinking about investing in a simple pot, to use as the vessel. I have room for that in my office. I think keeping the tea bag in the pot instead of the ramaken idea would be better.

Size of the pot maybe 24 ounce’ish?
Material either ceramic or porcelain?

Any suggestions as to styles?
Any suggestions as to materials?
Any suggestions as to where to buy for something decent and not some massed produced Amazon product?

I know there is a forum on the topic but not sure where to start there and many of you have already offered such great advice.
ChihuahuaTea
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Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:43 pm

Looks like a lot of teapots are more in the 150-210 ml range (so 5-7 ounces)?
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bentz98125
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Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:45 pm

debunix wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 10:04 am
The electric kettles that we are discussing are used only to heat water. You would never use leaves in them. They’re not designed for straining the leaves, or being cleaned easily afterwards.
debunix wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 10:04 am
The electric kettles that we are discussing are used only to heat water. You would never use leaves in them. They’re not designed for straining the leaves, or being cleaned easily afterwards.
ChihuahuaTea wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:15 pm
bentz98125 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:57 am
I know that when first discovering the world of tea the scale of what you don't know is overwhelming. A comprehensive guide answering your question could easily constitute an entire book. Rather than a definitive answer, random aspects of my experience might be encouraging. Unpredictability is the essence of discovery and discovery drives evolution . The chances that your tea drinking of ten years from now will be identical to what you start off with may well be nil. The flavor of coffee may be bigger and bolder than many families of tea with layered, subtle, delicate flavors. Accordingly i find big bold taste of Japanese umami to be better than coffee first thing in the morning. When I first started i thought I'd never be able to brew and drink on the fly but now I claim to be able to do so in almost any situation. All I need is a hot water source (thermos or even better a convection portable electric tea kettle with different preset temperatures) a cheap Bankoyaki gaiwan, and a ceramic cup. Tea leaves into preheated gaiwan, pour 150-165F water (depending on tea and 1st, 2nd, 3rd steep) into gaiwan, leave for 50 to 90 seconds (depending on tea or which steep), pour into cup, done. The cup can rest on top of the gaiwan and both can be carried and set down anywhere with one hand while it is still brewing. This is not the type of precise brewing done while focused in a Zen like trance. It is quick and flexible. Since bitterness is likely more objectionable to novices a good rule of thumb is to err on the side of cooler rather hotter water with the added insurance that if distracted, overbrewing does less damage at lower temperatures than higher. This risk of too hot water diminishes with each successive steep. The second rule of thumb is to learn to embrace the flavor of tea at any temperature. The forgotten cup or steep not remembered until the water has cooled is not wasted. It still tastes great! Good luck.
Amazing
I’m picturing you on a subway with a gaiwan and a thermos brewing up a tea on the fly like it’s child’s play and thinking nothing of it!

Any recommendations for online ordering of umami?

Sure,

https://www.o-cha.com
https://www.yuuki-cha.com
https://www.thes-du-japon.com
ChihuahuaTea
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:53 pm
Location: United States

Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:10 pm

Maybe I am missing something,
But is Japanese umami a flavor profile or is it a type of tea?
I checked out those sites and didn’t see a category called umami, but I see it listed within the profile of some of the selections.

(I also recognize umami from food channel viewing 15 years ago when they tallied about umami a lot)
Andrew S
Posts: 704
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Location: Sydney, Australia

Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:21 pm

@ChihuahuaTea: as to grandpa brewing, bear in mind that you'll have lots of floaters if you use cut-up leaves from English-style red / black tea (eg, English breakfast, etc), so that may not be the best style of tea to start with when learning that particular method of brewing.

Apparently the term 'grandpa style' tea brewing has already entered the online vocabulary sufficiently to enable a Google search to show different photos of what to expect.

As to the use of an "intermediate vessel to steep the tea", I think that that's the definition of a teapot. Perhaps the use of tea bags in cups has meant that you haven't seen many teapots being used, depending upon the part of the world that you have lived in.

As to teapots, bear in mind that a lot of people around here use some version or adaptation of the Chinese 'gongfu' method of brewing, which typically requires small teapots (usually less than 200mL, down to around 40mL), lots of leaves per mL (I often use 10g per 160mL, give or take), relatively short infusions (seconds at the start, not minutes) and lets you re-brew for multiple infusions (a good tea can often go for a dozen or more, depending on various factors).

That's not necessarily the best method for you, especially if you're brewing at work. Small teapots probably won't be good for use at work, since you'd need to refill them constantly, and small teapots tend to produce a lot more mess than big ones. You may be better-off with one big one.

I'm not really sure what to recommend beyond saying that beginners should not touch Yixing teapots or any similar kinds of clay teapots, for various reasons. Porcelain and ceramic are perfect to begin with (and, indeed, to continue with).

However, don't feel like you should necessarily give up on the proverbial grandpa method just yet, especially since it is cheap, quick and effective, subject to finding an appropriate tea to use for it.

Try some teas and see what you like.

Andrew
ChihuahuaTea
Posts: 57
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Sat Jun 18, 2022 10:05 pm

Thanks a lot Andrew

Amazing that I never had any idea that a teapot was an intermediary vessel. I always experienced tea from the bag in the cup, or throw it in the kettle on the stove (which I assumed was a tea pot)

And really a big negative of tea for me was the steep time with bag in the cup, because it takes some time and it cools off. But the teapot retains the heat while steeping and now it makes sense.

This really opens my eyes a bit.
I ordered a teapot, I have space for that in my office. I think it’s about 2 to 3 cups capacity?

I assume I will use those disposable mesh bags as I’m not sure the cleanup of loose leaf from a teapot while st the office (we have a sink for rinsing, but can’t get too busy scraping loose leads out into the garbage I don’t think?).
But I suppose if I get a less chopped leaf I will do it loose? I’m open to anything at this point within the parameters I have at my disposal.

I’m not going to give up on grandpa method. Just need to find the right leaf for it. I did watch some videos on it and I think I will like it when I figure it out.

I really appreciate all the info.
I am reading a book on the topic and have watched some videos on the subject as well, and can’t believe how little I knew and how much there is out there. I’m looking forward to learning more.
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