I’ve been fortunate enough until this week to have never encountered anything but perfectly neutral porcelains. @OCTO,
@Bok, and @LeoFox have mentioned that not all porcelains are neutral but I doubted it was to any significant degree. That is until this week.
Two glazed porcelains from two continents were anything but neutral.
One contributed a dry sensation to tea but was only lightly muting. It needed a strong tea to mask the effect.
Another was radically muting and left a dry sensation on my palate long after I switched to a Jingdezhen porcelain cup I knew was neutral. It would make cioppino taste like ketchup soup.
There was no subtlety to either of these two porcelains. This is not a pea and I’m no princess!
There are a couple of peculiar things about this to me.
The first is that I have many stoneware items with a simple clear glaze and these have been predictably neutral. Why has this only happened with glazed porcelain?
The second is that it seems to not matter if the item was hand made by an artist or is an inexpensive bulk item. Some are neutral and some are not.
Let’s talk about your experiences with porcelains and which you find to be more neutral or less muting. Vendor suggestions welcomed where you’ve found high quality, neutral-ish porcelains.
Let’s Talk Porcelains
I have only used porcelain gaiwan and cups, and I also have not encountered a non-neutral porcelain. However, I recently adopted a shiboridashi, I left the unused shiboridashi filled with tap water. A few days later, I noticed mold was growing. I puzzled for a bit, but I believe what caused the mold was the minerals from the clay. This shibodashi is not completely glazed on the rim, so water can get into the clay. As for porcelain, antique porcelain may develop crackle on the glaze due to aging, and whatever underneath the glaze can get into contact water/tea. I wonder if this is the case that altered the tea?
@DailyTX, that could be another way but these were fully glazed, without cracks or missing glaze (exempt on the exterior bottom of one item).
This is specific to the glazed used on these porcelains.
I’ve heard that not only can porcelain be muting but even “neutral” porcelains from Chaozhou, Jingdezhen, Dehua, or Japan can have different flavor characteristics.
This is specific to the glazed used on these porcelains.
I’ve heard that not only can porcelain be muting but even “neutral” porcelains from Chaozhou, Jingdezhen, Dehua, or Japan can have different flavor characteristics.
There are various recipes for clear glazes that can be found online. The ingredients do not raise flags: silica, feldspar, some flux. But it is also possible that some of these are proprietary. Additionally, firing temp and atmosphere may create the most significant difference.
I wonder if some of these glazes are not as vitrified as they appear or if we are dealing again with surface chemistry, like we did when discussing the effects of clays on teas.
Question is how do we know what is neutral? In order to be sure that one porcelain is neutral, you would have to control with various other porcelains, glass and other materials as control elements. By comparison you see what is what.
And that does ignore other factors like thickness, firing, shape and so fourth.
Welcome to another jungle of uncertainties and exceptions.
In my experience Japanese porcelain has more often than not been terrible with tea, I suspect it has to do with not being high fired enough.
@OCTO - What were the results from when you tested various porcelain gaiwans here: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=766
@Bok this may be another rabbit hole lolBok wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:25 amQuestion is how do we know what is neutral? In order to be sure that one porcelain is neutral, you would have to control with various other porcelains, glass and other materials as control elements. By comparison you see what is what.
And that does ignore other factors like thickness, firing, shape and so fourth.
Welcome to another jungle of uncertainties and exceptions.
In my experience Japanese porcelain has more often than not been terrible with tea, I suspect it has to do with not being high fired enough.
I don't know if there's a firm definition of neutral. For me, neutral is the reflection of the non filtered/altered taste of the tea. As for control variables. Maybe using the porcelain vessels to hold the brewed tea to decrease the number of variables. Maybe this assumption will have flaws that I don't know, but drinking from a thick porcelain cup vs. thin porcelain cup at the same temperature will yield the same taste. If this is true, then all we need to do is the measure the temperature of the tea, and drink it at the same temperature.
-
JournalerMarie
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:47 pm
- Location: Southern California, USA
This is so interesting. I have never noticed such an effect, but I wonder if:
a) There is some deposit on the glaze that is water-soluble
b) The glaze is contaminated, as others have speculated. I'm thinking of the effects of silver and other metals on taste.
c) The shape of the container funnels aromas into your nose differently.
a) There is some deposit on the glaze that is water-soluble
b) The glaze is contaminated, as others have speculated. I'm thinking of the effects of silver and other metals on taste.
c) The shape of the container funnels aromas into your nose differently.
A good way to quickly accumulate experience with porcelain is to do cz style three cup infusions: except using 3 different kinds of cups. Over a few sessions, one quickly realizes what's what. My preference tends to be for whiter and thinner. Some of the bluer reduction fired jdz pieces with higher iron content tend to be muting. But they all have their purposes. As bok mentioned, some arita ware can be pretty muting. I reserve the most muting one for shou. But I also have one that's not so muting that I use for sencha.
Also the absolute worst ones I've met are Taiwanese porcelain via taiwan tea crafts.
Also the absolute worst ones I've met are Taiwanese porcelain via taiwan tea crafts.
I tried to approach the porcelain differences idea with a healthy skepticism, but in the end concluded yes, they absolutely do behave differently - different quality, time periods, so on. Of course then with cups or pots being different sizes, thicknesses, shapes, so on I know that is having an effect too - my old ling long cup tastes different to a new one, but its significantly thinner and better quality among other things so even there I feel like its hard to make any sort of 1 to 1 comparison. So what I've found I like best all around for its effect is Jindezhen export porcelain from I'm guessing around the 70s - the pot I have actually has really nice heat retention (maybe just due to being on the thicker side?) and makes really nice smooth tea- I have a hei cha that I actually much prefer in this pot over any clay I have. the cups I've found are the best for aroma of any I have but but their size/shape is a big factor there- I need to get some larger ones still to see how it is for thicker body teas. I have a thing for trying out different cup materials and I've got a few different older styles that should be in my hands soon to. Still have yet to try any Japanese porcelain new or old and am interested in looking in to that a bit more. While prices can still get up there and there is potential leeching to worry about with certain wares, one plus side to me of porcelain is in general it can be quite a lot cheaper to explore than clay vintages.