Where did you get your tea education?

GaoShan
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Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:49 am

This might be a strange question to ask, but where and how did you learn the most about tea? You all seem a great deal more knowledgeable than me, and I was hoping for some tips on becoming more educated about the types of tea I like.

I've looked at various tea sommelier courses, but they don't seem to offer the level of depth I want. I really want to learn about Taiwanese oolongs and black teas, and more generally, about these types of tea in China and elsewhere. I'm not too interested in food pairings or cocktail mixology; I just want to know how to find good gongfu-style teas and how to brew them correctly.

Is education simply a matter of tasting enough good teas that you're confident your palate can identify them easily, or does it involve formal coursework at an institution somewhere? I really would like to get better at identifying flavours and terroirs, but am not sure where to go from here.
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Bok
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Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:09 am

I am not even aware of any Western institution that I’d consider even remotely qualified to teach this kind of thing…

I learned by drinking tea and more tea and then some more. Here in Taiwan it helps of course to have “elders” and more experienced drinkers share their teas.

Most I learned is by comparison. A is better than B that teaches you something. Drink some more and you find out actually F is much better than A and so on. Sample wide and deep, browse around here and don’t forget to question what you read and find out for yourself.
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mbanu
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Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:38 am

I think maybe education is a bad word... and I say this as someone who reads old tea books for fun. :D There are tea-book fans, of course. Tea history is especially appealing, because the industry changes so slowly. It is possible to read books like William Ukers' All About Tea from the 1930s, which is free and in the public domain, and still get a pretty decent grasp on tea generally and the industry up until that time.

For the day-to-day drinker, it is really more like subcultural knowledge -- it is the byproduct of people having tea together again and again and reaching a shared taste. If you ask someone in Senegal what the right way to brew green tea is, the answer will not be the same as if you ask someone in Zhejiang, because the ideal brewed tea for different groups is different. This can be a bit demoralizing for someone looking for objectively-best tea, but there are many objective things that everyone can still agree on, such as how certain growing conditions or processing will affect the tea (although they may disagree on whether it is good or bad).

It also isn't always as organic as a person might hope. Sometimes when folk-wisdom is followed back to the source, it leads to advertisements or an influential spokesperson who has decided to support a particular view of what tea should be.

However, there are tea-people who crave an objective consistency, and try to reach it within the framework of their tastes. The Brits have been quite good at this, in that if you want objective reasons for why British tea is the way it is, you can find them, all the way up to why that particular taste is the taste that subjectively was decided on.

Certain tea-cultures hone certain skill-sets because they are more important in their tea-culture than in others. Taiwanese pu'er fans seem to spend a lot of time learning how to detect counterfeits compared to British fans of Assam tea, for instance, because due to various industry quirks, this is a bigger issue with pu'er than with Assam.

The thing with tea-sommelier courses are that they are designed so that the restaurant is not embarrassed by being more ignorant of tea than the diner (as this is a reflection on the diner if they order a tea for another diner that is their guest and it is poorly prepared), but this is not as high a bar as one might expect. The restaurants are not expecting someone deeply immersed in a tea subculture to randomly decide to test their skills, but rather that it is available as a courtesy order and is done well enough not to be distracting.

For Taiwanese teas, the big influence seems to be the Taiwanese tea-art movement, which is the source of a lot of the Yixing-gongfu style for oolongs and especially pu'er. Not so sure with Taiwanese black (red) tea, as I don't honestly know who the demographic is that seeks those teas out, although I'm sure there are folks here more familiar with Taiwanese tea-culture who could elaborate.
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debunix
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Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:49 am

When I had to explore new teas because my standby SeaDyke TKY was unavailable, I bought a couple of books (Harney & Sons Guide to Tea; Tea Enthusiasts Handbook); joined a tea forum (first egullet.org, then the now diminished teachat.com, and now 'reside' at TeaForum.org); and participated in curated tastings through these forums. The books gave a good basic start, but the tastings were probably were key to opening my tea horizons.

On my own, I tried to find and taste examples of the 'ten most famous teas of china'--which was really a lot more than 10 because the lists are so variable from different sources. That was very useful because I explored a lot of different online tea retailers to find those teas.

But the tea tastings with online discussions brought together not just one example of each tea, but comparisons of multiple examples of one type or multiple teas from the same producer/region/source, and detailed descriptions of how others prepared those teas. That gave me more confidence in my own palate and preparations.

Even so, the mysteries of matcha's appeal remained opaque to me until I traveled to Japan and was guided in its preparation at a teahouse in a public garden and at Obubu Tea Farm.
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teanik
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Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:22 am

@GaoShan I'm not one of those more knowledgeable people you addressed your question to, but I'll chime in anyway. Learning how others brew our favorite teas gives us a rough outline, but, like you, I've probably learned most about the teas I like--at least in terms of how to brew them, and what to brew them in--by experimenting on my own. Other elements like historical, cultural and geographical context can usually be found online by Googling the type of tea. And of course tea discussion sites like TeaForum are great resources.
You mention Taiwan teas, so you may well have acquired teas from Tea-Masters. He has an informative blog about his teas: http://teamasters.blogspot.com/ as well as videos on YouTube. A lot of other vendors have these resources.
So, to answer your question, online sources like those I mentioned and personal experimentation are all I've used to acquire my modest tea knowledge.
But for me, tea is just a pleasant pastime. For one thing, I don't have the money to make it any more than that. If you really want to become more serious about it, there are certainly people on this site who can advise you.
Are there any informal tea gatherings in Toronto?
GaoShan
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Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:11 pm

Bok wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:09 am
I am not even aware of any Western institution that I’d consider even remotely qualified to teach this kind of thing…

I learned by drinking tea and more tea and then some more. Here in Taiwan it helps of course to have “elders” and more experienced drinkers share their teas.

Most I learned is by comparison. A is better than B that teaches you something. Drink some more and you find out actually F is much better than A and so on. Sample wide and deep, browse around here and don’t forget to question what you read and find out for yourself.
I agree, tasting a lot of different teas helps me identify what is good. However, I worry that my steeping parameters might be affecting what I think of certain teas (i.e., I use shorter steeps with oolongs when longer ones might bring out better flavours). I've noticed that I'm getting pickier about which oolongs I like, which may or may not be a good thing.

I'm sure it helps to have tea "elders" and others to compare notes with. It would be nice to have some benchmark teas and parameters to get a sense of what the tea "experts" like, even if I disagree.
GaoShan
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Location: Toronto, Canada

Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:37 pm

mbanu wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:38 am
I think maybe education is a bad word... and I say this as someone who reads old tea books for fun. :D There are tea-book fans, of course. Tea history is especially appealing, because the industry changes so slowly. It is possible to read books like William Ukers' All About Tea from the 1930s, which is free and in the public domain, and still get a pretty decent grasp on tea generally and the industry up until that time.

For the day-to-day drinker, it is really more like subcultural knowledge -- it is the byproduct of people having tea together again and again and reaching a shared taste. If you ask someone in Senegal what the right way to brew green tea is, the answer will not be the same as if you ask someone in Zhejiang, because the ideal brewed tea for different groups is different. This can be a bit demoralizing for someone looking for objectively-best tea, but there are many objective things that everyone can still agree on, such as how certain growing conditions or processing will affect the tea (although they may disagree on whether it is good or bad).

It also isn't always as organic as a person might hope. Sometimes when folk-wisdom is followed back to the source, it leads to advertisements or an influential spokesperson who has decided to support a particular view of what tea should be.

However, there are tea-people who crave an objective consistency, and try to reach it within the framework of their tastes. The Brits have been quite good at this, in that if you want objective reasons for why British tea is the way it is, you can find them, all the way up to why that particular taste is the taste that subjectively was decided on.

Certain tea-cultures hone certain skill-sets because they are more important in their tea-culture than in others. Taiwanese pu'er fans seem to spend a lot of time learning how to detect counterfeits compared to British fans of Assam tea, for instance, because due to various industry quirks, this is a bigger issue with pu'er than with Assam.

The thing with tea-sommelier courses are that they are designed so that the restaurant is not embarrassed by being more ignorant of tea than the diner (as this is a reflection on the diner if they order a tea for another diner that is their guest and it is poorly prepared), but this is not as high a bar as one might expect. The restaurants are not expecting someone deeply immersed in a tea subculture to randomly decide to test their skills, but rather that it is available as a courtesy order and is done well enough not to be distracting.

For Taiwanese teas, the big influence seems to be the Taiwanese tea-art movement, which is the source of a lot of the Yixing-gongfu style for oolongs and especially pu'er. Not so sure with Taiwanese black (red) tea, as I don't honestly know who the demographic is that seeks those teas out, although I'm sure there are folks here more familiar with Taiwanese tea-culture who could elaborate.
You bring up some interesting points. I think that in the West, there is no subcultural consensus of what gongfu tea should taste like, so people have to come up with their own ideas. (This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it does leave a lot up to the individual drinker.)

I'm not interested in working in a restaurant, so tea sommelier courses probably aren't for me. However, it would be nice to get a good idea of what great Taiwanese oolong should taste like, which I guess is trying to impose an objective standard on a subjective experience. Of course, there are financial constraints for most individual tea drinkers that make comparing teas from multiple vendors difficult. Being able to understand what someone should be looking for in a particular tea might help us gravitate to vendors that provide such teas, making buying less of a gamble.

I've heard of the tea-art movement in Taiwan but haven't explored it, as for me, the aesthetic elements of tea preparation are secondary to its taste. I'm sure a lot of the information around the gongfu preparation of Taiwanese oolongs could be marketing hype, but this doesn't help me when trying to steep my oolongs! :) I actually love Taiwanese hongcha and am surprised it doesn't get more attention.
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Bok
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Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:48 pm

GaoShan wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:37 pm
I think that in the West, there is no subcultural consensus of what gongfu tea should taste like, so people have to come up with their own ideas.
Oh believe you me, there is no consensus at all in Asia either....

GaoShan wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:37 pm
I've heard of the tea-art movement in Taiwan but haven't explored it, as for me, the aesthetic elements of tea preparation are secondary to its taste. I'm sure a lot of the information around the gongfu preparation of Taiwanese oolongs could be marketing hype, but this doesn't help me when trying to steep my oolongs! :) I actually love Taiwanese hongcha and am surprised it doesn't get more attention.
That movement is more or less confined to the North and the rich arty-farty people wearing white cotton and scarves, haha
The mainstream tea drinkers practice a much more casual and taste-based approach. It is just that these predominantly older and male group converses in other circles, so much less visible and everyday style at the same time.
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Bok
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Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:50 pm

GaoShan wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:11 pm
I agree, tasting a lot of different teas helps me identify what is good. However, I worry that my steeping parameters might be affecting what I think of certain teas (i.e., I use shorter steeps with oolongs when longer ones might bring out better flavours). I've noticed that I'm getting pickier about which oolongs I like, which may or may not be a good thing.
Worry less, enjoy more.

You are the ultimate judge of what you like with what is at your disposal in reach and financially. No point chasing the dragon and the unknown amazing tea you never had and prepared the "wrong way", which ultimately there isn't. Wrong I mean.
GaoShan
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Location: Toronto, Canada

Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:11 pm

teanik wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:22 am
GaoShan I'm not one of those more knowledgeable people you addressed your question to, but I'll chime in anyway. Learning how others brew our favorite teas gives us a rough outline, but, like you, I've probably learned most about the teas I like--at least in terms of how to brew them, and what to brew them in--by experimenting on my own. Other elements like historical, cultural and geographical context can usually be found online by Googling the type of tea. And of course tea discussion sites like TeaForum are great resources.
You mention Taiwan teas, so you may well have acquired teas from Tea-Masters. He has an informative blog about his teas: http://teamasters.blogspot.com/ as well as videos on YouTube. A lot of other vendors have these resources.
So, to answer your question, online sources like those I mentioned and personal experimentation are all I've used to acquire my modest tea knowledge.
But for me, tea is just a pleasant pastime. For one thing, I don't have the money to make it any more than that. If you really want to become more serious about it, there are certainly people on this site who can advise you.
Are there any informal tea gatherings in Toronto?
Thanks for your reply! To my knowledge, there aren't any tea gatherings in Toronto, though I'd be happy to learn otherwise. A few years ago, a shop called High Mountain Tea Co did tastings, but they were expensive and I never went, which is something I regret now that the shop is closed.

I haven't bought tea from Tea Masters, though I have benefitted from his articles and videos. However, vendors often give contradictory instructions about tea brewing, which just leads to confusion. Still, Tea Masters sells what are often considered benchmark teas, and I'll probably end up ordering from him in the near future.

I agree, money is an issue, especially with our exchange rate in Canada. I'd like to learn as much as I can about tea without breaking the bank.
GaoShan
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Location: Toronto, Canada

Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:37 pm

Bok wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:50 pm
GaoShan wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:11 pm
I agree, tasting a lot of different teas helps me identify what is good. However, I worry that my steeping parameters might be affecting what I think of certain teas (i.e., I use shorter steeps with oolongs when longer ones might bring out better flavours). I've noticed that I'm getting pickier about which oolongs I like, which may or may not be a good thing.
Worry less, enjoy more.

You are the ultimate judge of what you like with what is at your disposal in reach and financially. No point chasing the dragon and the unknown amazing tea you never had and prepared the "wrong way", which ultimately there isn't. Wrong I mean.
I'm glad to hear there isn't a "right way" to prepare tea in Asia either. I've heard of Chinese tea drinkers grandpa brewing teas we Westerners would treat with the utmost reverence, either because they have better access to them or that's how they like them.

You're right, trying to find the best Taiwanese oolong or Wuyi unsmoked Lapsang Souchong is a bit like chasing the dragon, and even if you can find such a tea, it's not financially feasible to drink it every day. Still, I think it's important to try a few exceptional teas to understand what a really good example of that tea should be like.

I think the fact that good tea is a lot harder to get and a lot more expensive in the West makes us (or me, at least) more cautious about how we use it, which is why making the most of it is so important and why we seek tea education. (I'm sure some of these issues apply in Asia as well and that good tea, wherever it is sold, isn't cheap.)
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LeoFox
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Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:14 pm

GaoShan
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Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:46 pm

LeoFox wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:14 pm
https://tillermantea.net/2019/07/gaoshan/
Thanks for that article! It's hard to believe that gaoshan, and Taiwanese oolong generally, is such a latecomer on the tea scene. Perhaps the development of these green oolongs reflects the recent tendency for Chinese Tie Guan Yin to become greener. It's also hard to think of Taiwan as an exporter of cheap tea.

Still, if Taiwanese high mountain oolong has been around for fourty years, there must be some consensus about brewing parameters and characteristics to look for. I came across this issue when trying to find a pot for these teas, with various people recommending various vessels. It's all very confusing for someone wanting to learn about tea who doesn't have an unlimited budget.
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LeoFox
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Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:55 pm

GaoShan wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:46 pm
LeoFox wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:14 pm
https://tillermantea.net/2019/07/gaoshan/
Thanks for that article! It's hard to believe that gaoshan, and Taiwanese oolong generally, is such a latecomer on the tea scene. Perhaps the development of these green oolongs reflects the recent tendency for Chinese Tie Guan Yin to become greener. It's also hard to think of Taiwan as an exporter of cheap tea.

Still, if Taiwanese high mountain oolong has been around for fourty years, there must be some consensus about brewing parameters and characteristics to look for. I came across this issue when trying to find a pot for these teas, with various people recommending various vessels. It's all very confusing for someone wanting to learn about tea who doesn't have an unlimited budget.
https://tillermantea.net/2018/07/gong-fu/
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