Your day in tea

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Quentin
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Location: Minnesota, USA (Twin Cities)

Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:53 pm

@LeoFox
You know your pots! That’s exactly what they are. Proverbial “I’ve only spent one day with them disclaimer”, but there are some notable differences.

Off the bat, I’ll say that I prefer brewing with the Hokujo kyusu, I think it’s constructed better. It feels sturdier, the nanban finish is fantastic to hold, and the spout pours better. Not to say Sou’s is bad, but the handle is placed and shaped a bit more awkwardly, and the pour doesn’t stay as smooth for as long. Both filters were very comparable, with Hokujo’s performing slightly better with fukamushi.

As for how they affect tea, I’ve only tried them with Japanese greens, and for that it seems to be largely a subtle difference. Of course it’s all subjective and down to personal preference, but to me the Hokujo kyusu rounds flavor and adds more thickness to the tea. It’s what I’d want on a cold day, or if I wanted some extra comfort.

Sou’s by comparison, I would say has better mineral matching for sencha and fukamushi, and instead of rounding the flavor, highlights the sweetness and fruitiness of the tea. One of them provided a lingering sweet aftertaste, but I couldn’t detect which side by side (although I suspect it be Sou’s). Sou’s teapot also dropped less heat during pre-heated 1-minute steeps. It’s what I’d want on a warm day, or when making tea for someone else.

So long story longer: Hokujo’s kyusu is very comforting, it feels great in the hands, was a joy to brew with and provided a warming & lovely tea; motherly would be my best descriptor. Sou’s kyusu, by contrast, is visually catching and likewise, produced a more interesting tasting and sweeter brew.
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Bok
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Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:04 pm

Quentin wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:35 pm
Image
Is that an earlier Hokujo? I have noticed earlier batches have a slightly different, darker looking clay. Also the details of the spout look different to his later style. Will be interesting to see with what he comes up now that he is semi-retired from commercial teapot making...
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Quentin
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Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:40 pm

I’m actually not sure when it was made, here’s a link to the AN listing: https://www.artisticnippon.com/product/ ... nban6.html

I thought it was a more recently made piece, but I could be mistaken. I may send an email to Toru and see if he knows, because I’m curious as well now. I’ll update if I find out.
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LeoFox
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Fri Aug 06, 2021 6:04 am

Thank you, @Quentin.

Your experience with the sou aligns with mine. I do not have a Hokujo pot. Yours bring up these lines by Tanizaki from In Praise of Shadows:
Whenever I see the alcove of a tastefully built Japanese room, I marvel at our comprehension of the secrets of shadows, our sensitive use of shadow and light. For the beauty of the alcove is not the work of some clever device. An empty space is marked off with plain wood and plain walls, so that the light drawn into its forms dim shadows within emptiness. There is nothing more. And yet, when we gaze into the darkness that gathers behind the crossbeam, around the flower vase, beneath the shelves, though we know perfectly well it is mere shadow, we are overcome with the feeling that in this small corner of the atmosphere there reigns complete and utter silence; that here in the darkness immutable tranquility holds sway.
We find beauty not in the thing itself but in the patterns of shadows, the light and the darkness, that one thing against another creates.
I preferred the old way should they be happy to bring me a candlestand. Since that was what I had come for, I asked them to do so. And I realised then that only in dim half-light is the true beauty of Japanese lacquerware revealed. The rooms at the Waranjiya are about nine feet square, the size of a comfortable little tearoom, and the alcove pillars and ceilings glow with a faint smoky luster, dark even in the light of the lamp. But in the still dimmer light of the candlestand, as I gazed at the trays and bowls standing in the shadows cast by that flickering point of flame, I discovered in the gloss of this lacquerware a depth and richness like that of a still, dark pond, a beauty I had not before seen.
(And this one, though it focuses on lacquerware)
With lacquerware there is an extra beauty in that moment between removing the lid and lifting the bowl to the mouth, when one gazes at the still, silent liquid in the dark depths of the bowl, its colour hardly differing from that of the bowl itself. What lies within the darkness one cannot distinguish, but the palm senses the gentle movements of the liquid, vapour rises from within, forming droplets on the rim, and the fragrance carried upon the vapour brings a delicate anticipation ... a moment of mystery, it might almost be called, a moment of trance.
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Bok
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Fri Aug 06, 2021 6:54 am

@LeoFox beautiful words!
faj
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Fri Aug 06, 2021 7:05 am

Bok wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:04 pm
Is that an earlier Hokujo? I have noticed earlier batches have a slightly different, darker looking clay. Also the details of the spout look different to his later style. Will be interesting to see with what he comes up now that he is semi-retired from commercial teapot making...
There have been quite a few similar Hokujo kyusus going for sale over the past year or so, popping up in various places. I do not know enough to tell if this is an old style he revived or a new one, but I did not see anything similar before in the couple of years I have been paying attention. They seem to be quite a bit more expensive than the pots I would have considered typical before seeing these, which I think I have seen referred to as "nanban".

Most (all?) of these "nanban" teapots have a spout shaped differently from Hokujo's usual "drip-free" style. The spout end seems at a right angle to its axis, with the walls at the tip rounded as if left untouched after coming off the wheel, rather than cut with a curve and a sharp lip like his other (and his son's) teapots usually have. I remember seeing a video showing him make that final, sharp lip on a spout do that with a quick motion and some kind of cutting tool.

I have been wondering for a while how these spouts behave. Now I can ask!
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Quentin
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Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:41 am

LeoFox wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 6:04 am
Thank you, Quentin.

Your experience with the sou aligns with mine. I do not have a Hokujo pot. Yours bring up these lines by Tanizaki from In Praise of Shadows:
Whenever I see the alcove of a tastefully built Japanese room, I marvel at our comprehension of the secrets of shadows, our sensitive use of shadow and light. For the beauty of the alcove is not the work of some clever device. An empty space is marked off with plain wood and plain walls, so that the light drawn into its forms dim shadows within emptiness. There is nothing more. And yet, when we gaze into the darkness that gathers behind the crossbeam, around the flower vase, beneath the shelves, though we know perfectly well it is mere shadow, we are overcome with the feeling that in this small corner of the atmosphere there reigns complete and utter silence; that here in the darkness immutable tranquility holds sway.
We find beauty not in the thing itself but in the patterns of shadows, the light and the darkness, that one thing against another creates.
I preferred the old way should they be happy to bring me a candlestand. Since that was what I had come for, I asked them to do so. And I realised then that only in dim half-light is the true beauty of Japanese lacquerware revealed. The rooms at the Waranjiya are about nine feet square, the size of a comfortable little tearoom, and the alcove pillars and ceilings glow with a faint smoky luster, dark even in the light of the lamp. But in the still dimmer light of the candlestand, as I gazed at the trays and bowls standing in the shadows cast by that flickering point of flame, I discovered in the gloss of this lacquerware a depth and richness like that of a still, dark pond, a beauty I had not before seen.
(And this one, though it focuses on lacquerware)
With lacquerware there is an extra beauty in that moment between removing the lid and lifting the bowl to the mouth, when one gazes at the still, silent liquid in the dark depths of the bowl, its colour hardly differing from that of the bowl itself. What lies within the darkness one cannot distinguish, but the palm senses the gentle movements of the liquid, vapour rises from within, forming droplets on the rim, and the fragrance carried upon the vapour brings a delicate anticipation ... a moment of mystery, it might almost be called, a moment of trance.
Those are really, really beautiful. To reveal some of my ignorance, I haven’t ever heard of Tanizaki, but I think I’ll need to read some of his stuff.
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Quentin
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Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:12 am

@faj

So I can only speak to my specific Hokujo nanban kyusu, but it seems to perform wonderfully even without a non-drip lip. That is not to say that you can’t get it to drip; when poured comically slow you do get a wetted trail of water down the bottom of the spout, and after that’s happened it’s more likely to drip with normal pours too.

However, the lid is so well-fitted that you can pour with the kyusu completely inverted without anything dripping from the lid. Paired with its respectable 10 second pour for 170ml of water with max flow, I don’t see a reason why you’d need to pour it as slowly as it takes to make it drip.

Anecdotally, so far with every brew that I’ve done with it, I haven’t noticed any dripping - and that’s from just normal use, not doing anything wacky like pouring upside down like I mentioned earlier.

Lastly, one cool thing about the spout is that it is slightly curved towards the handle so that when you reach the end of your pour, it’s more ergonomic to get that last bit of tea out. (It’s hard to photograph but here’s my best attempt)

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Bok
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Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:28 am

@Quentin for some Japanese teas, I would indeed prefer a very slow and controlled pour, high quality Gyokurus for example. Fast pour is not really a necessity with many Japanese teas and it usually shows in the ergonomics of their teaware.

That said each new teapot needs a little
time getting familiar with and how to best handle it.
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Quentin
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Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:24 am

@Bok
I should have specified when I said it dribbles when poured “comically slow”. I meant trying to get single drip streams, around 2ml/s or your tap on the lowest flow rate. Meant no disrespect to people who like slow pours, but do apologize if it came across that way.

I also prefer a slower controlled stream for my Japanese teas, and have found 10-15 second pours to be my own personal sweet spot. So I was trying to compliment the pot by saying that the fasted pour I could manage from it was still 10 seconds long. Meaning that even when rushing, the pot guides you back to something slower.

Again, sorry if my words came across as insensitive in any way.
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Bok
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Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:19 am

@Quentin haha no worries I did not mean to imply that at all… just wanted to mention the nuances of it. All good.
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Baisao
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Fri Aug 06, 2021 12:08 pm

Quentin wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:12 am
Lastly, one cool thing about the spout is that it is slightly curved towards the handle so that when you reach the end of your pour, it’s more ergonomic to get that last bit of tea out.
I just had a look at 9 of my side-handled kyusu, across 6 potters, and they all have this geometry. While the attachment may be at 90°, the handle angles towards the spout on each one. It's a nice ergonomic touch.

The thin handle on Sou pots can be a little uncomfortable as it presses on the bones of the index and middle fingers. I like the mayake pot I have of his in every way except the thin handle. It's hardly a deal breaker. It's merely an idiosyncrasy of his style. The pour and effects of the clay are exceptional.
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LeoFox
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Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:08 am

Decided to brew a good jasmine tea (from hojo) in the way many western facing vendors seem to recommend: 5-6g / 100 mL at 80-85 C starting at about 20-25s seconds. Typically I do 2-3g/100 mL using boiling water and starting at 1-2 minutes.

Positives:
The tea is more thick and oily.

The early infusions are extremely flowery - more so than with my usual method

The jammy sweetness of the tea is very deep. I can get more than just strawberry jam notes. Other fruits slowly roll out. It is not as deeply sweet with the boiling water approach.

Negatives:
The tea feels unbalanced. It is too flowery in the early infusions. And then in later infusions, it gets more astringent and slightly unpleasant, though takes quite a few infusions to reach.

The tea feels "dead". It is very flowery, jammy and thick but it lacks the high notes and "spark" that a hot infusion provides.

The tea is less creamy. The hot water infusion brings out a creaminess that is absent.

It is hard to taste the underlying green tea until later infusions - by which time the tea is not as interesting. I can see this can be advantageous if the underlying tea is inferior grade. But if it's not, then it's a shame.


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expattim
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Mon Aug 09, 2021 7:55 am

tommyroland wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:39 pm
I am new here and have something to ask, if I want to make a good cup of tea, is the amount of water different? For example, green tea, breakfast tea and oolong tea, is the amount of water when brewing different?
Thanks!
I am also brand new here, and have been experimenting with temp., time, amount of water, as well as differing vessel materials.

I have a couple of kyusus (230 and 260ml); decided to first try using a set amount of Sencha/Kabusecha/Shincha in them with 200ml of water at a set temp., then decided to cut back on the water by 50ml...WOW! I noticed a huge difference.

I like to change one thing with the others constant, so I can really see what changes happen because of that one thing, and then can decide what I personally enjoy. I find it's really cool to note the differences.

I had an experience that made me realize experimentation is necessary (at least for me), and that figuring out your own preferences is really important:

I once got a sample of a Sencha from an online retailer, they had on the main page and the sample packet for that tea, a 3 minute steeping time. I figured well they must know what's best, so tried it for 3 minutes...and I did NOT enjoy it!. I then did a second infusion based on what I would do if I had done the first at 2 minutes, and it was really nice! (noticed later they recommend 2 minutes in their "preparation instructions" for that same tea, sadly you don't see that page unless you go looking)...

I learned how much of a difference even one aspect of the brewing process can make.
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Balthazar
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Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:05 pm

Tea-highlight of the day: Finally finding the time to slice up this huajuan.

The hacksaw was fine when I sliced up a shiliang earlier, but didn't really work at all for this 10x larger log. So after a couple slices with the hacksaw I changed to an old handsaw, which made things tremendously more easy.

If I was going to do this regularly (and I'm not) I'd probably get a dozuki or ryoba saw, which I imagine will leave behind a lot less debris (hat tip to @pedant). But the regular "western" handsaw did an excellent quick and dirty job, and with 3 kilos of tea some sacrificial sawdust to the heicha gods are more than acceptable.

As for the tea itself, it's a late 90s (although possibly early 2000s, hard to pinpoint the year of these things) BSX bailiang. More on that some other time.

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(Left plate is handsaw slices, right plate is hacksaw slices)
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