Why Does Tea Go Bitter in the Cup?

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Lucifigus
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Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:52 pm

As an explanation, I generally use a gaiwan that brews about 125ml of tea. I drink tea in a different room than I brew tea. I really don’t want to stand at the sink drinking tea in 50ml cups, nor do I want to be running back and forth every few minutes. I use thick ceramic cups of about 250ml and I brew two infusions in my gaiwan and pour them into my cup.

Not always, but frequently I note that the last mouthful or two from the cup is quite bitter compared to the first 75% of the cup. It’s not off the chart bitter, but significantly different than the earlier portion of the cup. Just for detail, I have noticed this with aged white tea, aged sheng, and some oolongs.

I realize water temperature and brewing time can affect this, but I am specifically wondering about the last bit of tea in the cup, after what seems to be a very fine cup with no bitterness.

Is there a rational explanation for this phenomenon? Is this something that can be mitigated, or does everyone experience this and just live with it? Does the cup size or brewing method I am using affect this?

Lucifigus
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mbanu
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Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:18 pm

Might it be due to tea dust sediment in the cup? With dusty teas, the dust can make its way into the cup. Avoiding dusty teas to begin with helps, but breaking up a pu'er cake tends to produce some degree of tea dust. If rinsing is not removing the dust properly, it can be assisted by removing dust from the dry leaf through sifting, such as putting the tea in a tea basket and giving it a good shake.
Ethan Kurland
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Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:23 pm

The last swallow of a cup of tea may seem to have bitterness that the rest of the drink did not because the bottom of the cup is the bitter part; however, bitterness can also be due to that characteristic building in one's mouth.

One can drink 90% of his brew, leave the rest in his cup for 30 minutes & think it is proof that the bitterness is in that last 10% because it tastes bitter & whatever build up of bitterness there might have been in one's mouth should have dissipated in 30 minutes. However, a cooler temperature or other factors may lead to tasting bitterness more.

I often don't finish drinking all that I have prepared & leave what is left in uncovered cups & in serving teaware overnight. It tastes different in various ways on different mornings.
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Bok
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Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:44 pm

Some teas continue oxidating in the cup, you can actually see how the liquid turns darker over time. The better teas can take it, others turn bitter.

Dancong no matter how good turns bitter really fast in the cup if not drunken immediately.
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LeoFox
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Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:39 pm

I've had keemuns (cheap ones) that start off bitter when very hot. Become sweet when Luke warm, and then super astringent when room temperature
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Iizuki
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Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:43 am

I attribute this mostly to bitterness building up in your mouth, like @Ethan Kurland already mentioned. Additionally, I think that the same phenomenon is noticeable in a larger scale, between the brews of a session. I.e. subsequent brews appear more bitter.
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Bok
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Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:50 am

Iizuki wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:43 am
I attribute this mostly to bitterness building up in your mouth, like Ethan Kurland already mentioned. Additionally, I think that the same phenomenon is noticeable in a larger scale, between the brews of a session. I.e. subsequent brews appear more bitter.
Seems weird to me, never had this happening with any of my teas... also, would tea not get weaker and weaker with each round, thus counter-balancing said build-up(if that is really the case).
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Iizuki
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Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:59 am

Bok wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:50 am
Seems weird to me, never had this happening with any of my teas... also, would tea not get weaker and weaker with each round, thus counter-balancing said build-up(if that is really the case).
And then we try to counter this by increasing the brewing times. It's clear that there are way too many variables to confirm this hypothesis by only using our feeble senses. In the end that's just how I try to make sense of the world.
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Bok
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Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:03 am

Iizuki wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:59 am
It's clear that there are way too many variables to confirm this hypothesis by only using our feeble senses. In the end that's just how I try to make sense of the world.
True that.

When the tea turns bitter due to this, that means the quality of the tea might be part of the problem. At least for Taiwanese teas, the better the tea, the less long steeps will be affected by unpleasant bitterness. True for most oolong I believe.
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Iizuki
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Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:11 am

Bok wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:03 am
When the tea turns bitter due to this, that means the quality of the tea might be part of the problem. At least for Taiwanese teas, the better the tea, the less long steeps will be affected by unpleasant bitterness. True for most oolong I believe.
I agree. I'm mostly in the business of drinking puer, so more or less bitterness tends to be present.
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Victoria
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Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:32 pm

Lucifigus wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:52 pm
....I use thick ceramic cups of about 250ml and I brew two infusions in my gaiwan and pour them into my cup.
....Not always, but frequently I note that the last mouthful or two from the cup is quite bitter compared to the first 75% of the cup. ... I have noticed this with aged white tea, aged sheng, and some oolongs.
.....I am specifically wondering about the last bit of tea in the cup, after what seems to be a very fine cup with no bitterness.
.....Does the cup size or brewing method I am using affect this?
The cup shape, size and material can effect how a tea tastes and how fast it cools down. @Lucifigus Can you show us the cup and describe it? A big un-lidded opening in a 250ml cup will cool down tea faster than a pre-heated teapot used as a serving pitcher. Also, how long does it take for you to finish the tea in cup? 250ml is pretty big cup, being un-lidded it will cool down leaving the last portion much cooler than first few. Cooled down tea tastes stronger than hot tea. It is possible that you are very sensitive to bitterness, and that what you describe as ‘bitterness’ are stronger tannic notes developed from heated tea sitting in the large cup for a while. For instance, when I place tea ontop of a heating pad and forget to remove it in time that tea will taste more tannic, like it got cooked. Do you get similar ‘bitter’ notes when using a pre-heated teapot as server, using smaller cups?

P.S. I just had a cooled down Lishan the last steep was steeped overnight, it was not bitter at all yesterday, but steeped all night and cool I can taste some bitter notes. I attribute this to slight over steeping and tea being cooler so flavors are more pronounced. This bitterness though doesn’t come out with every tea I steep overnight, so it may have to do with quality of product. I’ll double check overnight steeps in next few weeks for any bitterness.
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Lucifigus
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Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:43 am

Victoria wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:32 pm
...The cup shape, size and material can effect how a tea tastes and how fast it cools down. Lucifigus Can you show us the cup and describe it?
snip
Here is a photo of the cup with some other objects for scale - that's an avocado beside the Port. The cup has about 190ml of liquid in it.

After I somewhat fill my cup, it takes about 6-9 minutes to cool to where I can do more than have a little sip. As with most hot liquids, it has a small slice in time where it's in the ideal temperature zone. With my tea this way, that period lasts about 4-6 minutes. During that time if I am not distracted or focused on a task, I will consume 80-90% of the tea, leaving a small bit in the cup that generally gets consumed later. Sometimes my consumption of the cup is more gradual, perhaps over 10 minutes or more, and that's when I can distinctly notice a change with a higher level of bitterness coming around at the end of the cup. Not for all teas, but some.

With all the variables involved in extracting the highest amount of pleasure, whatever that may be for the individual, I was just curious if there was something here recognizable that I could control. Perhaps it's just not that simple.
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Victoria
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Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:06 pm

Lucifigus wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:43 am
With all the variables involved in extracting the highest amount of pleasure, whatever that may be for the individual, I was just curious if there was something here recognizable that I could control. Perhaps it's just not that simple.
By 15 minutes hot tea will have cooled down a lot in your cup. The cup you are using is a yunomi made mostly for drinking Japanese teas which are steeped much cooler than aged white, sheng or oolong. Since you like to stack a few 150ml gaiwan steeps I recommend you use a pre-heated +-350ml glazed ceramic teapot or sim. covered pitcher and decant into your pre-heated yunomi or better use smaller cups. This way your tea will stay warm longer at a good temperature, avoiding tannic bitter notes coming from cooled off tea. Then when the bitter tannic notes do appear you’ll know that the tea is not the highest grade, or that cooler temp is needed when steeping. My two cents 🍃.
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Lucifigus
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Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:45 pm

Victoria wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:06 pm
By 15 minutes hot tea will have cooled down a lot in your cup. The cup you are using is a yunomi made mostly for drinking Japanese teas which are steeped much cooler than aged white, sheng or oolong. Since you like to stack a few 150ml gaiwan steeps I recommend you use a pre-heated +-350ml glazed ceramic teapot or sim. covered pitcher and decant into your pre-heated yunomi or better use smaller cups. This way your tea will stay warm longer at a good temperature, avoiding tannic bitter notes coming from cooled off tea. Then when the bitter tannic notes do appear you’ll know that the tea is not the highest grade, or that cooler temp is needed when steeping. My two cents 🍃.
That's good information, thanks. I have smaller cups coming. Perhaps what I need is an insulated Gong Dao Bei. With more time and trials, and good information, I'll hopefully figure it out.
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Victoria
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Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:54 pm

Since you are stacking 2X 150ml -that volume of tea in an un-lided pitcher/fairness cup/gong dao bei will get cold after +-10min. For this reason I recommended a pre-heated glazed ceramic teapot/lidded pitcher of similar volume to tea being decanted. Alternatively, you could try a thermos, but the tea may become over-steeped and tannic after some time. Main objective is to keep some heat in, but not so much to then overcook the tea.
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