How to tell if my light oolongs / green teas are going stale?

26uk
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Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:11 pm

Hi, I don't really know how to tell if my greener oolongs and green teas are going stale. Does it just lose flavor, or might it become more grassy?
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Victoria
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Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:20 pm

In my experience, aromatics and complexity of flavor notes in liquor gets dull. Also, oxidation leads to more tanic profile.
26uk
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Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:29 pm

So more specifically, would a jin xuan cultivar oolong lightly oxidized, taste less milky and more grassy?
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Victoria
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Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:39 pm

26uk wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:29 pm
So more specifically, would a jin xuan cultivar taste less milky and more grassy?
I associate grassiness with freshness, that is the first characteristic that gets lost due to oxidation. That your milk oolong is becoming more grassy sounds strange. Maybe the oolong is doctored with artificially compounds. One way to know if it’s artificially doctored is if aroma and flavor only lasts during first steep, then fades very quickly.

A few questions; How long have you had this oolong? How was it stored? Have you had many other Jin Xuan oolong?
26uk
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Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:06 pm

Victoria wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:39 pm

I associate grassiness with freshness, that is the first characteristic that gets lost due to oxidation. That your milk oolong is becoming more grassy sounds strange. Maybe the oolong is doctored with artificially compounds. One way to know if it’s artificially doctored is if aroma and flavor only lasts during first steep, then fades very quickly.

A few questions; How long have you had this oolong? How was it stored? Have you had many other Jin Xuan oolong?
Interesting for sure.

1. It's happening to all my light oolongs. I like the butterscotch / milky taste so I have more jin xuan oolongs than others. But even my smooth water baozhong from floating leaves also taste like super grassy green tea.
2. They are typically stored at room temp in their original zip lock bags.
3. I have drank some milk oolongs that are definitely artificially flavored. Like the one by west china tea and mountain tea. Those were obviously super strong and made me nauseous smelling them. The ones I have now are very light, and do last for many infusions.

Maybe just my tastes have changed since i started drinking more puer (that's why that other thread). Or I got some mild covid infection I never noticed.
faj
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Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:02 pm

26uk wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:06 pm
2. They are typically stored at room temp in their original zip lock bags.
How long do you keep them at room temperature before opening the bags, and how long do they stay open after that until you finish them?
26uk
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Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:19 pm

faj wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:02 pm
How long do you keep them at room temperature before opening the bags, and how long do they stay open after that until you finish them?
Before opening the bags the first time I receive them? I usually drink them same day.

Open, pour out a few grams, close.

Actual frequency depends, but the ones I am noticing getting more grassy, I haven't drank them for a while (new teas showing up :) ). Maybe a month they just sit.
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LeoFox
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Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:25 pm

26uk wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:19 pm
faj wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:02 pm
How long do you keep them at room temperature before opening the bags, and how long do they stay open after that until you finish them?
Before opening the bags the first time I receive them? I usually drink them same day.

Open, pour out a few grams, close.

Actual frequency depends, but the ones I am noticing getting more grassy, I haven't drank them for a while (new teas showing up :) ). Maybe a month they just sit.
Green oolongs: my experience is that they take a day or two to wake up. Then they noticeably degrade after 2 weeks. I try to drink them fast. I keep my opened bags clipped in a very cool part of the house in a air sealed cannister filled with oxygen eaters and dry packs. I keep unopened bags in that same area of the house. I don't refrigerate them.

Green tea: somehow, i feel they degrade a bit slower than green oolongs. I dont notice a big difference until 3-4 weeks. I store opened bags the same way as green oolong. I keep unopened bags in a mylar bag that is refrigerated.
faj
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Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:55 pm

26uk wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:19 pm
Actual frequency depends, but the ones I am noticing getting more grassy, I haven't drank them for a while (new teas showing up :) ). Maybe a month they just sit.
I cannot really tell if the change you observe is consistent with what one would expect from any given type of tea. However, I can tell you that in my subjective experience, green tea can lose freshness very quickly. In some cases, a couple of days can rob a tea of its wow factor. A month can really take it several notches down.

I have seen a gyokuro or two improve during the first few days because they had less pleasant aspects that a bit of waiting tamed, but they did not "gain" anything, rather selectively lost something that was worth losing.

When I first began drinking tea, I had many bags open at the same time. You feel like opening the next one in hopes that it is going to be better, and often it turns out to be, but then you increase your inventory of open bags, and that is more tea becoming less pleasant.

Drinking fresh tea, drinking a variety of teas in quick succession, drinking everything you purchase : pick two.

I ended up drinking all the tea I was buying, but I came to the conclusion that I prefer having fewer bags open at the same time. If I were totally disciplined, I would have no more than two bags of sensitive teas open at a time, and drink both every day. For variety, any additional session in my day would be with less fragile teas (i.e. aged teas).

@Baisao mentioned using inert gas to help preserve tea once open. This is something I want to try, but where I live the only way to get a product like that at a decent price is to purchase a whole box, and I haven't pulled the trigger yet. If successful, I suspect I would use that to keep a couple bags of tea in top condition rather than have more bags open.
faj
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Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:14 pm

LeoFox wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:25 pm
Green tea: somehow, i feel they degrade a bit slower than green oolongs. I dont notice a big difference until 3-4 weeks.
I do not drink green oolongs very often so I cannot comment, but for sencha and Chinese greens, I have seen a couple of days make a big difference. Not all teas react the same way even within a category, but it is probably safe to say that time is never an ally for open bags of green tea. All my memorable sessions have been with freshly open bags.

I use oxygen absorbers, and I can't say I have felt it made an obvious difference. Oxygen absorbers in addition to inert gas could be a winning combination, because the inert gas would reduce the amount of work the absorbers have to do, keeping them effective for longer.
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LeoFox
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Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:25 pm

faj wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:14 pm
LeoFox wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:25 pm
Green tea: somehow, i feel they degrade a bit slower than green oolongs. I dont notice a big difference until 3-4 weeks.
I do not drink green oolongs very often so I cannot comment, but for sencha and Chinese greens, I have seen a couple of days make a big difference. Not all teas react the same way even within a category, but it is probably safe to say that time is never an ally for open bags of green tea. All my memorable sessions have been with freshly open bags.

I use oxygen absorbers, and I can't say I have felt it made an obvious difference. Oxygen absorbers in addition to inert gas could be a winning combination, because the inert gas would reduce the amount of work the absorbers have to do, keeping them effective for longer.
I should edit what i said from big difference to meaningfully bad difference. I do actually enjoy how the tea changes to an extent. Also, i think i have 10 oxygen absorbers in my canisters.
26uk
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Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:32 pm

Oh man, thanks guys for the feedback. Sounds like a month might have changed them sufficiently that I'm not really enjoying them.

I'm going to roast some of it (in my oven) to see if I can make it better.

Any of you guys use the fridge to store green teas? Tempted to, but afraid of condensation.
faj
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Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:03 pm

26uk wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:32 pm
Any of you guys use the fridge to store green teas? Tempted to, but afraid of condensation.
Many people have commented on the forum that they keep unopened bags in the refrigerator, sometimes the freezer. Following their example I do too, allowing as recommended at least 24 hours and usually 48 hours after taking the bag out before I open it. A sealed bag, either refrigerated or not, surely maintains freshness much longer than an open one.

There is one type of tea I keep in the refrigerator, using it as I need it : matcha. I do not drink much of it, and I have kept good matcha for months in the fridge (in a tightly clipped bag inside a tin), opening it briefly (while cold) to take what I need. I did not feel it lost much (not a matcha expert, though). Maybe I should try keeping sencha in the fridge, taking it out briefly enough that condensation does not have time to form, or even pouring my tea funnel in the fridge to measure the tea.
26uk
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Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:25 pm

Doesn't putting a sealed bag in a fridge cause condensation since the air temp in the bag drops so it cannot hold as much moisture?
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LeoFox
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Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:27 pm

26uk wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:25 pm
Doesn't putting a sealed bag in a fridge cause condensation since the air temp in the bag drops so it cannot hold as much moisture?
The bag should be vacuum sealed and contain moisture/oxygen killing packs. If not, then that's a bad vendor.
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