Tea in 18th century china as described in "Dream of the Red Chamber"

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LeoFox
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Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:07 pm

As many of you may already know, tea shows up in many passages of the classic 18th century chinese novel, Dream of the Red Chamber.

I want to share here a lengthier section of the book that describes two tea sessions.

In the first session, tea is served to a "poor relation", granny liu, who is a target of snobbery.

The second session is between the wealthy and extremely snobbish young aristocrats.

The description highlights the extravagant obsession with water and tea ware, that is probably more parody than reality. This over the top illustration of class differences as demonstrated through tea reminds me a little of Trimalchio's feast in the Satyricon. In another passage, granny Liu is also subjected to mockery during a feast where she is served extravagant dishes and forced to use fancy but unwieldy chopsticks.

Edit: this is from David Hawke's translation. Passage from volume 2, chapter 41
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Last edited by LeoFox on Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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LeoFox
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Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:24 pm

Two teas are mentioned in this passage:

Lu An tea: possibly a type of fermented tea described in this article from GTH:

http://archive.globalteahut.org/article/861

Alternatively (and more likely) this could refer to liu an gua pian:
Wikipedia:
Lu'an Melon Seed Tea was a type of gong cha ("tribute tea") to the imperial family during the Qing dynasty (1644–1911). It was enjoyed by the Guangxu Emperor (r. 1878–1908) and Empress Dowager Cixi (r. 1861–1908). Lu'an Melon Seed Tea was also mentioned about 80 times by the writer Cao Xueqin (1715–1763) in his novel Dream of the Red Chamber.[2]

Old man's eyebrows: not sure what this is. Very unlikely to be shou mei white tea, because that was developed more recently.
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Balthazar
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Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:10 am

Thanks for sharing. The Hawkes/Minford translation of The Story of the Stone ( :mrgreen: ) is really brilliantly done.

As for what kind of tea "Old man's eyebrows" refers to, I remember reading an article about it way back, but can't remember. Still, based on Granny Liu's reaction I always assumed it was a white or green tea (but didn't try to map it with a timeline). Should be lots of info on this from Chinese sources, will try to have a look after work.



(The clip is from the 1987 TV series version)
Octagon
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Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:34 am

I remember longjing is also mentioned later on, volume 4 or 5 of the Hawkes/Minford translation.

There is also a paper - "Tea in The Story of The Stone: Meaning and Function" (easily found through google). Haven't got round to reading it though so I can't comment on it.
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LeoFox
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Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:24 am

This is the paper. It seems to be a list of references to tea throughout the text, and attempts to interpret them in relation to the narrative and to the personalities of the characters. However, it doesn't focus on the teas themselves. It would be nice to get a etext of the chinese and do a simple search for all instances of "cha".

I have always been fascinated by the complex interplay between the concepts of real and fake in this novel:
  • 1. The real bao yu vs the fake bao yu

    2. The "true" narrative reality vs the symbolic world in the mirror and the dreams that frames the main narrative.

    3. The false projected image of the family as powerful/influential/endlessly wealthy/cultured/honorable and the reality of a family dependent on one of its members being in the royal harem and filled with corruption and dissipation

    4. The false, idealized pathways towards power (scholarship and honor) and the reality of power (privilege and corruption)

    5. The real ethics of Confucius in the original canon vs the fake later interpretations

    6. True good taste vs superficial taste. Really an instance of legitimate culture vs fake. This kind of anxiety might have been very strong in the context of Han Chinese culture under "barbarian" Manchu rule

    7. False tea vs true tea

    Etc etc
This is perennially relevant, esp for China today, whose market is flush with dangerous counterfeits and scams so that a person growing up there needs to develop a keen sense of what is real and what is fake in order to survive. The news is filled with misinformation and propaganda and distorted history.
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Balthazar
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Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:48 am

LeoFox wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:24 am
It would be nice to get a etext of the chinese and do a simple search for all instances of "cha".

TeaForum doesn't allow for .txt attachments, but here's a link.

茶 appears 492 times.

(It's public domain, btw, so no copyright issues or anything like that)

As for the "Old man's eyebrows" (老君眉 - Lao junmei), according to this Baidu page there's two theories, the most recent/popular one suggesting it's a Wuyi tea :)
老君眉,茶名,又名仙茶。其成名来自于红楼梦中妙玉提到的老君眉,关于这种茶的来源一般有两种解释,一种认为其是湖南洞庭湖君山所产的白毫银针茶,另一种解释认为其是福建武夷山的名丛,而根据最新的研究认为这种茶就是武夷山的名丛,该茶的汤色深色鲜亮,香馥味浓,能消食,解腻的特点符合红楼梦中描述的特征。
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LeoFox
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Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:17 am

Balthazar wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:48 am
LeoFox wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:24 am
It would be nice to get a etext of the chinese and do a simple search for all instances of "cha".

TeaForum doesn't allow for .txt attachments, but here's a link.

茶 appears 492 times.

(It's public domain, btw, so no copyright issues or anything like that)

As for the "Old man's eyebrows" (老君眉 - Lao junmei), according to this Baidu page there's two theories, the most recent/popular one suggesting it's a Wuyi tea :)
老君眉,茶名,又名仙茶。其成名来自于红楼梦中妙玉提到的老君眉,关于这种茶的来源一般有两种解释,一种认为其是湖南洞庭湖君山所产的白毫银针茶,另一种解释认为其是福建武夷山的名丛,而根据最新的研究认为这种茶就是武夷山的名丛,该茶的汤色深色鲜亮,香馥味浓,能消食,解腻的特点符合红楼梦中描述的特征。
Great work! Reading this, I find the wuyi cha theory the more persuasive of the two.
Octagon
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Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:07 am

I have always been fascinated by the complex interplay between the concepts of real and fake in this novel
The things you list are relevant but I think ultimately the real/fiction theme relates to a Buddhist idea about the illusory status of reality. So I think it’s less about corrupt authenticity and more about reality itself being a fiction – less about learning to distinguish between the real and the fake and more about, sort of, transcendence.

I think Anthony Yu makes this point in Rereading the Stone (1997) that the book, a work of fiction, presents the idea to the reader that reality itself is a fiction.

It is after all a book that thematises its own fictionality (the story being inscribed on a stone and read within the frame of the novel).

But now I’m going on about stuff other than tea. :D
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LeoFox
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Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:36 am

Octagon wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:07 am
I have always been fascinated by the complex interplay between the concepts of real and fake in this novel
The things you list are relevant but I think ultimately the real/fiction theme relates to a Buddhist idea about the illusory status of reality. So I think it’s less about corrupt authenticity and more about reality itself being a fiction – less about learning to distinguish between the real and the fake and more about, sort of, transcendence.

I think Anthony Yu makes this point in Rereading the Stone (1997) that the book, a work of fiction, presents the idea to the reader that reality itself is a fiction.

It is after all a book that thematises its own fictionality (the story being inscribed on a stone and read within the frame of the novel).

But now I’m going on about stuff other than tea. :D
Thank you for bringing up the Buddhist perspective! I agree this is definitely a central theme to the story, and in some ways may serve to "legitimize" this novel as "serious", esp considering how much it focuses on downton abbey type drama.

One problem commonly faced by characters in stories that present the idea that "reality is a fiction" is that fiction is manufactured and therefore stylized and given meaning by some meaning giver whereas there is no actual underlying meaning. The bulk of such stories describe how these characters take up an expected role as seen in fictions they are familiar with. However, reality is ultimately shown not to be fiction; and the characters end up confronting some form of tragedy (often suicide) when they realize their actions are meaningless since reality is not really like a book. Examples of this can be found in the heroes/heroines of countless classics that cut across so many time periods and cultures such as don Quixote, madame bovary, anna karenina, tom sawyer, the aeneid, kokoro, etc, etc. In the dream of red mansion, bao yu seems to play the role of the buddhist/daoist fictive hero who is exposed to all sorts of worldly experiences to cleanse his soul. It seems that he himself is aware or made aware of this role as the story continues. At the same time, he is expected to have many other roles that he ends up relinquishing. Does bao yu ever realize that his "destiny" to transcend is just an illusion too? I am not sure - but maybe the novel makes the reader question this, esp considering the original text was unfinished. It would be interesting if someone could rewrite the second half and give it a more madame bovary/ anna karenina like ending...

Another reading of this novel is that it is an apology for the kind of naturalism promoted by Zhuangzi. I also remember a lecture making the argument that the novel is structured similarly to a shamanist trance such as one described in the li sao. Then there are older analyses that try to "decode" the book as if it there were some hidden message in the text. One over the top late qing era analysis attempts to do an i ching type fortune telling of each character, and suggest the book is really about the interactions of different types of destinies.

I feel that all these topics have a place in the philosophy of tea.
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Balthazar
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Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:12 am

Just noticed that Tea-Masters (or "tea minus masters", as he pronounces the URL :) ) has a video out on a new book by Teaparker, who seems to have dipped his toes in redology. I wonder if it brings anything new to the table or is merely a summary of other writings on the topic.

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