Stepping it up in Quality

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Noonie
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Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:35 am

I've been drinking good loose leaf tea for 10 or so years and I would say I'm fairly budget-minded; not cheap, but as I tend to have 3 tea sessions a day I do think about how much I want to spend, daily, and then find mid-range tea that I like. It has generally worked for me as I'm usually quite happy with my tea, though rarely blown away. I'll use Sencha as an example - I've had budget daily drinkers that were $10-12 / 100g and didn't like them enough to drink them daily. I found a sweet spot in the $15-25 range where I'm usually not disappointed. About 5 years ago I had one that was around $35 / 50g and it was really good. Last year, after sampling a Sencha at Kettl in NY I bought like 5 bags of it; it was $35 / 100g. It was worth the extra $10 over my usually mid-range tea. Getting to sample it was nice because I knew I liked it so when I later placed an order I make it cost effective (shipping, etc.).

The thing with deciding to step (steep! haha) it up in terms of quality is that I already have a good deal of the teas I drink most regularly and enjoy (shou/sheng and sencha). Today I had a sample of 90's shou that was really good. Sure I can get some and say it's for now and then, but that's hard to do! Once you get the taste and all...

So what does one do when faced with a good deal of tea on hand (none of it at all bad) but a desire for that better grade? Anyone else been there?
faj
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Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:04 pm

Noonie wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:35 am
I've had budget daily drinkers that were $10-12 / 100g and didn't like them enough to drink them daily.
To me, "daily drinker" should be loosely defined as tea that one can afford on a daily basis and would also appreciate to have on a daily rotation of teas. Depending on tastes and budget, not everyone would identify the same teas as "daily drinkers", and that is fine. I would not call a tea a daily drinker if, all things consider (including price), I would rather not have it in my daily rotation, or would rather skip in favor of fewer sessions of more expensive stuff.
Noonie wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:35 am
So what does one do when faced with a good deal of tea on hand (none of it at all bad) but a desire for that better grade? Anyone else been there?
I cannot say I have faced having a huge inventory of teas I would rather not drink, precisely because the situation you describe is a situation I am trying to avoid. This being said, having purchased relatively small amounts of a relatively large variety of tea, I have on many occasions had tea that I knew I would not purchase again, but I have always finished those and avoided accumulating opened bags of teas I like less, basically waiting for them to go stale to justify discarding them outright.

I definitely have that vision, over the long term, of dedicating an increasing portion of my tea sessions to teas I know and really like, trying fewer new teas and choosing more carefully those I sample. This might require accepting an average cost per session that goes up with time, but it also requires discipline to avoid ordering too much.
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klepto
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Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:19 pm

I'm only a year and a half in my tea adventures so I don't have any daily drinkers yet. I'm still trying to understand tea traits along with location and how that changes the tastes of the tea. As I find those which are fascinating, I explore them. Its strange that teas that I didn't like in the past are the ones that I reach for now. I want the full monte in my loose leaf teas, I enjoy tasting the sweet, bitter, nutty, smokey, medicinal and other notes that pop up in the steepings. Finding the sweet spot between quality of tea and price will be important when I pick my daily drinkers. I find myself often increasing the amount of leaf in a 80ml gaiwan or 90ml yixing teapot. I've pushed it until it either got too extreme or too bitter. My tea roots lie in those super cloyingly sweet bug bitten Taiwan oolongs but now the teas I like are sweet but have a more balanced taste profile. Learning about tea takes some time and my wallet is giving me a nasty look. :evil:
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debunix
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Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:44 pm

I've been lucky in that I still enjoy sessions with my first tea love, SeaDyke red label Ti Kuan Yin, although not usually gongfu sessions, but it's a thermos staple. I've found ways to enjoy some rather average teas, like sparkling sencha or cool-brewed greens, that I would not want to feature in my first or last of the day more focused sessions.

But there have been a few times when I gave up on a tea completely, and was grateful for the worm bin, so it didn't go straight to landfill.
Noonie
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Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:33 pm

Thanks for the responses! I love reading different perspectives.

I should clarify something - all of the tea I have on hand is good, I like it, but after recently having some 'better' tea I'm feeling like I want more of that.

I consider myself still relatively new to tea. A really easy comparison to understand for wine drinkers - you've had wine for years, so you have some perspective about quality and value. You come across a bottle you like a lot, and it's on sale so you buy a case. Weeks later a friend gives you a bottle of wine that blows you away. It costs more and you're thinking hmm...that's definitely better than the case I just bought, but I want to finish what I have before buying anything else.

Simple as that - perspectives morph over time and lately mine has been bitten my some good tea (which is a great thing to have to contemplate!).
faj
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Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:31 pm

Noonie wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:33 pm
I should clarify something - all of the tea I have on hand is good, I like it, but after recently having some 'better' tea I'm feeling like I want more of that.
As long as the tea you have on hand is good enough not to be unpleasant to consume (which would make it actually reasonable to give it away or dispose of it), it is always relative : when you find teas with price/quality ratio you prefer, it affects what you think of drinking the tea you already have on hand.

If I were to try to establish a rule of thumb, I would say the inventory one keeps should be proportional to one's experience level. When one is a newbie (which I consider myself to be), there is so much one does not know that the probability of finding new teas that have a better perceived price/quality ratio than those already known is high. Then, as one explores and develops a better understanding, stocking up on a few favorites makes more sense, I think. The key is resisting the urge to purchase a lot (too much?) tea because as a newcomer you also see a world of possibilities you want to explore. At the end of the day, all the money you invest in tea you do not drink and accumulate is money not available to buy better teas.
DailyTX
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Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:45 pm

This is an interesting topic as I think it relates to price, quality of leaves, popularity, and availability. For price, as mentioned above it depends on each person’s wallet :lol: . Quality of leaves is something I have been looking into more in the last few years as a pu erh drinker, and slowly migrating myself away from Zhong Cha due to being a blended tea. As for popularity, one particular thought comes to mind was when EOT offered their 2001 mengsa old tree tea. I was tempted to buy a cake (shipping from China to US takes so long, buying samples for me was not worth the wait. Also due to popularity and positive experience with EOT, I feel comfortable buying a blind cake that’s under $100usd); however, resisted as I have 2 orders from late March early April that have yet to arrived. Availability...I only found 2 Chinese owned tea shops in my area. 2+ years ago, I purchased 3 tongs of yellow mark Zhong Cha (produces by Menghai tea factory) from a local tea shop for about $35 bucks per bing. I thought it was a good buy back the, but as I learned more about counterfeit teas, I still have my doubt if it’s the genuine Zhong Cha or a counterfeit tea :lol: . Aside from my own individual journey, I received a cake of 2nd production of the Big Green Tree pu erh from a family friend who’s a tea collector in China. Once in a blue moon, I’ll do a session to see what so special about this tea. Last time I checked a western vendor who sells it for around 2k usd per cake. I think this sums up all the baby steps I took
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klepto
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Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:03 pm

DailyTX wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:45 pm
Quality of leaves is something I have been looking into more in the last few years as a pu erh drinker..
@DailyTX I am very curious about the quality of leaves, but there is much argument among the uber tea drinks about the quality so I don't definitively know what the best quality leaf looks like..
DailyTX
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Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:29 pm

klepto wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:03 pm
DailyTX wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:45 pm
Quality of leaves is something I have been looking into more in the last few years as a pu erh drinker..
DailyTX I am very curious about the quality of leaves, but there is much argument among the uber tea drinks about the quality so I don't definitively know what the best quality leaf looks like..
@klepto
I don’t have a simple answer to that. So far, most people agree older tree is better than younger tree. So, I compare the leaves after each session and try to recognize the texture and characteristics of old tree. Since I drink tea daily, I save those used leaves for fertilizer anyway.

Not to confuse you more, there are other school of thoughts who go after the perfect blend of tea, now that’s hard to tell. Those experts recognize features of certain region of pu erh, and blend them into unique taste. It’s almost like people blending shou and Sheng. I think pu erh has too many variables that people can play with, often times people’s acquired taste that’s comfortable to them. In a way it’s very similar to food. The same ingredients, people debate which style makes a better dish.
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mbanu
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Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:14 pm

Last year, after sampling a Sencha at Kettl in NY I bought like 5 bags of it; it was $35 / 100g. It was worth the extra $10 over my usually mid-range tea. Getting to sample it was nice because I knew I liked it so when I later placed an order I make it cost effective (shipping, etc.).
I think this habit is maybe the root of the problem. It is only cost-effective if it is guaranteed that you will drink it, and that depends on a few things being true, that the tea won't go stale before you drink it, and that you will still want to drink it throughout the entire time frame needed to finish it. Usually the more protection you have against one, the more risk you have of the other. If the tea is no longer fresh after 6 months, then you just have to want to drink the tea for the next six months. If the tea is no longer fresh after many years, then you will have to want to drink the tea for many years.

One thing that can help is to keep track of how much tea you consume over time. Even though this may change in the future due to new life events, knowing how much tea you drink now gives you a baseline; if it takes you a year to drink a kilogram of tea, then any tea bought over that amount will need to have a shelf-life longer than a year. If you already have tea you are working through, then there will be even less room for new tea.

For tea you already have but have lost interest in, it will depend on if there is a second-hand market for the tea. With pu'er you may be able to trade it for tea you want, or find someone willing to buy it from you. With other teas that go stale more quickly, it will be best to treat it as a sunk cost and just toss it, as if you won't drink it it is just a foil bag full of hay. If the tea is still fresh enough that you would not feel guilty gifting it, a nice thing can be to send the remainder to anyone you have had tea with who has remarked that they enjoy it, although if you aren't strict on this it can start up a "the gift that nobody wants" re-gifting cycle among your tea friends where everyone sends each other teas that nobody wants to drink yet can't bear to throw out, which is not really an improvement.

Predicting changes in taste is harder. The best you can do here is find people who seem to have had similar tastes to you now in the present some time in the past and to see how different life events changed their tea tastes. A common one seems to be people who were gongfu-brewing enthusiasts when they were younger who no longer have the leisure time for such a fussy way of making tea, so any tea that is only good when brewed gongfu is now a tea that has no use for them. (However, I have seen the reverse in a few older people after they retired and suddenly found themselves with more free time again, so these changes are not fixed.)

Look back on the things you were interested in 4 years ago, are they the same as today? 8 years ago? 20 years ago? Some people are more restless than others, and will become excited about a thing for a short period of time and then lose interest, but if you asked them in the middle of their interest they would claim that they are going to be excited about this thing for the rest of their lives, while on the other hand, some people become interested in something when they are young and stubbornly persist with it long after it has been forgotten or dismissed by everyone else. Buying for the future depends to some degree on understanding personalities.

If you find that moderating tea purchases is hard because tea-buying has become a stress-reducing pastime, a good alternative is to channel the impulse to buy tea into buying teaware, as it has a shelf-life of a lifetime, a strong secondhand market, and is easier to re-gift than tea.
Ethan Kurland
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Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:09 am

mbanu wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:14 pm
........

If you find that moderating tea purchases is hard because tea-buying has become a stress-reducing pastime, a good alternative is to channel the impulse to buy tea into buying teaware, as it has a shelf-life of a lifetime, a strong secondhand market, and is easier to re-gift than tea.
+1 on your generous sharing of wisdom that may have been acquired over years at some cost

If you are still feeling generous, I could use a good yixing teapot. Cheers :)
faj
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Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:55 am

mbanu wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:14 pm
If you find that moderating tea purchases is hard because tea-buying has become a stress-reducing pastime, a good alternative is to channel the impulse to buy tea into buying teaware, as it has a shelf-life of a lifetime, a strong secondhand market, and is easier to re-gift than tea.
Purchasing too much teaware to avoid buying too much tea... One more creative way to justify TAD! :mrgreen:

That being said, well thought-out post. At this time, I am not stocking up on tea for long-term storage, so it is easy to keep tea purchases in check : I order new teas when I know I am going to run out in the not-too-distant future, and I purchase an amount that makes sense from a shipping standpoint but will not last too long. I see how, for people who purchase aged teas (or teas that can age) with a long-term storage perspective, the equation quickly becomes a difficult one involving future availability, cost, changing personal tastes, storage risks...
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