Quality

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Tillerman
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Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:02 pm

chofmann wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:22 am
Bok wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:26 am
chofmann wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:09 pm
My "source" is somebody who used to go to many tea "clubs" in china 20-30 years ago where people would frequently bring their own tea and they would rank it against each others. I don't know the specific science behind sinking tea leaves and quality, but this was certainly their belief. Call it an "old wives tale" if you will. The belief is that teas with more nutrition will sink faster.
I live in Asia and you wouldn’t believe the amount of this kind of half knowledge, superstition and misunderstood over centuries passed on informations (see Chinese whispers :mrgreen: ), all without any backing in science or physics. Very popular, but unrelated the belief that a baby’s hair will grow longer faster once you shave it off once… Especially round the tea table, people here brag about all sorts of things.
chofmann wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:09 pm
As for a scientific explanation.... I've seen a few possible theories, but I have no idea what is true:
1. "rougher" leaves will have more air bubbles caught on them causing them to float longer. Smoother leaves will sink faster.
2. As teas warm up, the release certain gasses / chemicals that are lighter than water. The more that are released, the denser the leaves become, and the more they sink. Based on this theory, these things being released are probably bad, so the fewer that exist to start... the better.
3. Tea leaves sink once they are fully saturated, therefore the faster they sink the faster they are saturated. In this theory, I suppose faster tea saturation would be a sign of a better leaf for some reason.
I think none of it makes a lot of sense. Take for example ball shaped rolled oolongs: how fast they will sink will mostly have to do with how tightly rolled they are, which is per se not enough of a quality sign. For example: I have had the same black tea in rolled and open leaves. The same farmer made it to serve different customer preferences. Literally the same tea, but certainly a different sinking speed!

Certainly there are better methods to determine quality… hope that as a vendor you do rely on something more solid!
Don't worry! As a vendor we rely on taste first and foremost, as well as meeting with the farmers and inspecting their process.

I was merely trying to offer up some ideas of how one could potentially measure quality of various teas they have purchased but otherwise know nothing about besides relying on their subjective taste.
Is taste really "subjective?" I certainly will grant that preference is subjective. Yet are there not a objective characteristics of, in this case, tea that can be found in the cup? I have delved into this a little deeper at https://tillermantea.net/2017/12/taste/. See also Lawrence Zhang's excellent article http://www.marshaln.com/2017/12/objectively-good-tea/.
Ethan Kurland
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Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:11 am

I think that often when we say, "Taste is subjective," we mean that what one tastes when drinking a particular tea differs from what other tastes. We might agree on what citrus character is, for example, but we might not all perceive the citrus when drinking a particular tea. "Tea tastes differently to individuals," may be a more accurate statement.

Away from that thought: Perhaps saying a tea is high quality avoids problems with variation of what it gives. For example, I have been drinking my best tea, Father's Love, a well-oxidized, smoked and aged organic oolong coming from the top of Lishan etc. (Trying not to advertise, but no worries, no one is buying from me who does not post photographs). In the winter when my nose and mouth get dried out from the heating, I cannot discern particular flavors. I am enjoying the tea yet all the flavors are a mellow, rich, singular flavor so cannot say much about it right now. It is special and high quality, but honestly I cannot refer to flavors of dried fruit, malt, etc. now. Perhaps in a few months. Subjective is a broad, useful phrase that Bok has reminded us refers to the condition of a drinker (what he ate before drinking etc.)d And at this moment quality is a phrase useful to value a tea that I cannot describe better.
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Bok
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Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:25 pm

Tillerman wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:02 pm
Is taste really "subjective?" I certainly will grant that preference is subjective. Yet are there not a objective characteristics of, in this case, tea that can be found in the cup? I have delved into this a little deeper at https://tillermantea.net/2017/12/taste/. See also Lawrence Zhang's excellent article http://www.marshaln.com/2017/12/objectively-good-tea/.
Both really good articles! Interesting as well to read the comment sections to MarshalN’s article.
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debunix
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Mon Dec 25, 2017 3:17 pm

MarshalN's post clarified something that had been a bit murky for me, about brewing competition teas hot and strong to bring out all of the qualities of the tea. I've been brewing more teas hotter in the past couple of years, and then adjusting with cooler water afterwards to taste.

I'm learning, slowly....
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