Quality

[Tillerman]

What does it mean to say a tea is "high quality."

[Psyck]

To me, it means that it tastes better than most other teas.

[Tillerman]

To me, it means that it tastes better than most other teas.

What if you like it and another experienced taster does not?

[Psyck]

To me, it means that it tastes better than most other teas.

What if you like it and another experienced taster does not?

I don't think that has ever happened (well probably only because I don't read blogs and rarely read reviews). The few times I checked reviews before deciding on say buying larger amounts of a sample I liked, the reviewers liked it too.
In any case, even if others disagreed with my opinion, I would still consider it high quality if a tea tastes significantly better than other teas in the same class. The exception would be if it were regarding a tea type I'm less familiar with - then I would work on further developing my palate with other teas in that class before making a decision.

If I were buying say some hi-fi equipment, then I would listen to more experienced voices, since there are more objective parameters involved and there are thousands of dependable high quality English language reviews available regarding the high quality of the products. That is not the case with tea and hence in most cases I prefer to go by my own personal experience rather than an extremely meagre collection of other opinions.

[Bok]

To me, it means that it tastes better than most other teas.

What if you like it and another experienced taster does not?

Kind of a cross-over from the other topic. Taste perception differs a lot from person to person, some might taste something others do not and never will. See the phenomenon of super-tasters. Some people can not stand the taste of coriander, others love it and it is not the fault of the quality of the plant itself, it is subjective taste perception or bodily reaction to it.

But - to a certain degree there will always be some sort of consensus on what defines good quality.

[chofmann]

Had this conversation recently with somebody who would know a thing or two about quality tea.

I was told that there are three tests for quality: two objective, 1 subjective.

The subjective one is of course taste. In the end, whatever you find tastes the best will be the best tea for you, and this can vary significantly from one person to another.

But if you want to help solve an argument with somebody else (or at least insert some discussion topics), the two objective methods are as follows:

1. Steep the tea in a tall glass. The faster the tea leaves sink to the bottom, the higher quality they are (assuming the same type of tea of course. Different varieties will have different relative speeds).

2. Analyze the tea leaf after it has steeped. How does it look, how much is it broken beyond what it expected (i.e. holes in bug-bitten)? Color, size, oxidation, and knicks and bruises are all analyzed.

Hope this helps!

[Bok]

Had this conversation recently with somebody who would know a thing or two about quality tea.

I was told that there are three tests for quality: two objective, 1 subjective.

The subjective one is of course taste. In the end, whatever you find tastes the best will be the best tea for you, and this can vary significantly from one person to another.

But if you want to help solve an argument with somebody else (or at least insert some discussion topics), the two objective methods are as follows:

1. Steep the tea in a tall glass. The faster the tea leaves sink to the bottom, the higher quality they are (assuming the same type of tea of course. Different varieties will have different relative speeds).

2. Analyze the tea leaf after it has steeped. How does it look, how much is it broken beyond what it expected (i.e. holes in bug-bitten)? Color, size, oxidation, and knicks and bruises are all analyzed.

Hope this helps!

While I agree with the general division into sub- and objective I fail to see how and why the two methods indicate quality?
Why are better leaves heavier, more godd stuff in them? Any scientific backing up for that?
As for the second, of course the state of the leaves can give clues about quality but only in a limited way, good leaves can still be damaged, due to improper storage or aging etc.

The only objective way to judge teas I know of is the one the British introduced for their CTC-system and which is used in modified ways in Taiwan as well for competitions and sampling tea: Cupping.

A set amount of grams is brewed in the same cup over the same extended period of time. The tea is pushed to the extreme to make faults obvious. The goal is not to have an enjoyable brew but to see where its limits are. The whole thing then sampled with spoons. In a more traditional way a gaiwan does the same trick.

Anyways, the better the leaves, the more they can take this kind of treatment.

Another indicator for quality can also be how many brews you can get.

[Jo]

I agree with Bok, any scientific backing on "I heard it from a source that knows"?

Statements like that should be backed up with source, studies, etc.

[Ethan Kurland]

What does it mean to say a tea is "high quality."

There should be "?" at the end of a question. Now that I have my argumentative frame of mind in gear, I will respond to the ? literally.

For me, saying "high quality" may not mean the taste is best or my favorite taste. It refers to a being so good and special over time and through imperfect preparation. However, I dislike the testing that Bok refers to. I think it is too extreme, beyond sloppy preparation.

"What is high-quality?" is a different question. For me the ways one might test leaves, can help but have not proved a guarantee of what will happen when I open a packet months or even years after it was purchased. And as you all know, some teas' flavors fade so quickly after a packet is opened. For me, a tea cannot be high-quality if it cannot remain excellent over months unopened and weeks once opened.

Much is subjective; yet, it is easy to know when less flavor is being delivered than was delivered before or when something bad has newly appeared such as bitterness. Of course, compared to other teas, green teas need to be used rather fast once opened; but high-quality will hold up better than lower......... Each category of tea has its parameters for comparison.

[chofmann]

I agree with Bok, any scientific backing on "I heard it from a source that knows"?

Statements like that should be backed up with source, studies, etc.

My "source" is somebody who used to go to many tea "clubs" in china 20-30 years ago where people would frequently bring their own tea and they would rank it against each others. I don't know the specific science behind sinking tea leaves and quality, but this was certainly their belief. Call it an "old wives tale" if you will. The belief is that teas with more nutrition will sink faster.

As for a scientific explanation.... I've seen a few possible theories, but I have no idea what is true:
1. "rougher" leaves will have more air bubbles caught on them causing them to float longer. Smoother leaves will sink faster.
2. As teas warm up, the release certain gasses / chemicals that are lighter than water. The more that are released, the denser the leaves become, and the more they sink. Based on this theory, these things being released are probably bad, so the fewer that exist to start... the better.
3. Tea leaves sink once they are fully saturated, therefore the faster they sink the faster they are saturated. In this theory, I suppose faster tea saturation would be a sign of a better leaf for some reason.

[Tillerman]

What does it mean to say a tea is "high quality."

There should be "?" at the end of a question.

You are absolutely correct. 'Tis usually me who plays grammar police - now I'm hoist on my own petard.

[Bok]

My "source" is somebody who used to go to many tea "clubs" in china 20-30 years ago where people would frequently bring their own tea and they would rank it against each others. I don't know the specific science behind sinking tea leaves and quality, but this was certainly their belief. Call it an "old wives tale" if you will. The belief is that teas with more nutrition will sink faster.

I live in Asia and you wouldn’t believe the amount of this kind of half knowledge, superstition and misunderstood over centuries passed on informations (see Chinese whispers ), all without any backing in science or physics. Very popular, but unrelated the belief that a baby’s hair will grow longer faster once you shave it off once… Especially round the tea table, people here brag about all sorts of things.

As for a scientific explanation.... I've seen a few possible theories, but I have no idea what is true:
1. "rougher" leaves will have more air bubbles caught on them causing them to float longer. Smoother leaves will sink faster.
2. As teas warm up, the release certain gasses / chemicals that are lighter than water. The more that are released, the denser the leaves become, and the more they sink. Based on this theory, these things being released are probably bad, so the fewer that exist to start... the better.
3. Tea leaves sink once they are fully saturated, therefore the faster they sink the faster they are saturated. In this theory, I suppose faster tea saturation would be a sign of a better leaf for some reason.

I think none of it makes a lot of sense. Take for example ball shaped rolled oolongs: how fast they will sink will mostly have to do with how tightly rolled they are, which is per se not enough of a quality sign. For example: I have had the same black tea in rolled and open leaves. The same farmer made it to serve different customer preferences. Literally the same tea, but certainly a different sinking speed!

Certainly there are better methods to determine quality… hope that as a vendor you do rely on something more solid!

[Bok]

For me, saying "high quality" may not mean the taste is best or my favorite taste. It refers to a being so good and special over time and through imperfect preparation. However, I dislike the testing that Bok refers to. I think it is too extreme, beyond sloppy preparation.

I think there are two different aspects to this, the private, personal and the professional:

I agree with you and do myself not practise cupping. Mainly because I do dislike the look of those cupping sets and I do not own more than one gaiwan as I do also not like to use them. I test it in a way that works for me. When I test out new teas I always use the same pot, cup, brewing setup. Testing every tea over a few days to exclude other factors like eaten food, personal well-being etc. The quality criteria only need to work for me and the way I brew it.

On the other hand if I were to be a professional tea vendor, my personal taste will matter less and the sheer volume of teas I might have to taste and choose from, will make a more standardised and quick selection process necessary to be efficient. There is a difference between tea enjoyment and the choosing and judging of a tea on a level playfield.

[Ethan Kurland]

I think there are two different aspects to this, the private, personal and the professional:

There is a difference between tea enjoyment and the choosing and judging of a tea on a level playfield.

Yes, Bok, you are correct and put this all wisely into perspective. Some people with whom I have enjoyed drinking tea, such as yourself, Jay, John B. & teadoff (Jeff) have the palates & experience of a professional but still can thoroughly enjoy tea alone & with others in a straightforward manner. In my own city, Boston, tea sessions with serious tea people were like the judging of a competition. Oolongs that I had anticipated enjoying were steeped very long in boiling water. Perhaps I showed displeasure too much. It's been a very long time since I sat with serious tea people in my own city. cheers

[chofmann]

My "source" is somebody who used to go to many tea "clubs" in china 20-30 years ago where people would frequently bring their own tea and they would rank it against each others. I don't know the specific science behind sinking tea leaves and quality, but this was certainly their belief. Call it an "old wives tale" if you will. The belief is that teas with more nutrition will sink faster.

I live in Asia and you wouldn’t believe the amount of this kind of half knowledge, superstition and misunderstood over centuries passed on informations (see Chinese whispers ), all without any backing in science or physics. Very popular, but unrelated the belief that a baby’s hair will grow longer faster once you shave it off once… Especially round the tea table, people here brag about all sorts of things.

As for a scientific explanation.... I've seen a few possible theories, but I have no idea what is true:
1. "rougher" leaves will have more air bubbles caught on them causing them to float longer. Smoother leaves will sink faster.
2. As teas warm up, the release certain gasses / chemicals that are lighter than water. The more that are released, the denser the leaves become, and the more they sink. Based on this theory, these things being released are probably bad, so the fewer that exist to start... the better.
3. Tea leaves sink once they are fully saturated, therefore the faster they sink the faster they are saturated. In this theory, I suppose faster tea saturation would be a sign of a better leaf for some reason.

I think none of it makes a lot of sense. Take for example ball shaped rolled oolongs: how fast they will sink will mostly have to do with how tightly rolled they are, which is per se not enough of a quality sign. For example: I have had the same black tea in rolled and open leaves. The same farmer made it to serve different customer preferences. Literally the same tea, but certainly a different sinking speed!

Certainly there are better methods to determine quality… hope that as a vendor you do rely on something more solid!

Don't worry! As a vendor we rely on taste first and foremost, as well as meeting with the farmers and inspecting their process.

I was merely trying to offer up some ideas of how one could potentially measure quality of various teas they have purchased but otherwise know nothing about besides relying on their subjective taste.