Best By Date

Post Reply
Slurp
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:20 pm

Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:40 pm

Most teas have a "best when used by" date on the package. But how accurate are those dates? Wondering what peoples' actual experience has been with different types of tea. Do the best by dates understate how long a tea is good? And does it vary by type? My own experience has been that teas tend to be good past/long past their stated dates, particularly black/darjeeling teas.

PS: I'm wondering specifically about unopened packages stored at room temp, I understand that things change once opened, or stored in freezer.

PPS: I get that teas never "go bad", I'm wondering in the sense of the flavours no longer being as pleasant.
User avatar
mbanu
Posts: 962
Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 3:45 pm

Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:16 pm

It will depend on your personal tolerance for flatness, aroma loss, and rancid or musty notes.

How the tea is rolled and fired will change the shelf life, but maximizing shelf life comes with certain sacrifices.

Tea can go bad in a "make you sick" way, but it needs to get wet, so normally you only see this with very poorly stored teas or teas kept in heavy humidity tropical conditions.
User avatar
aet
Vendor
Posts: 409
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:56 pm
Location: Kunming ( China )

Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:40 pm

As you mentioned, lots of variables involved but in my experience...in general 2 - 6 years. ( of course we skip the puerh in this topic )

Green tea
Usually ok up to 2 years , 3rd year is the last year (for most cases). Some high mountain greens are also still good 3 or 4th yeas due to the way of processing.

Black tea
depends on type and processing

If dark / heavy roasted like Fujian style blacks.... 2-3 years are ok. ,The 1st year is the best. 2nd year it slowly starts to loose it's high temp roasted taste and aroma ( chocolate & nuts ). 3rd year u more likely drink just sweet water.

Light roasted golden tipsy Dianhongs tend to be good after half year of processing , because many of the fresh ones still might have that odd taste of oxidation / wei diao ( withering ) . Those are ok up to 4 years if stored in air tight packaging.

The longest sitter , in my opinion, is the sun dried black tea " Shai Hong " which actually is not nice 1st year for most of the people. Too sour. Russians even called it Borsch tea coz of the taste reminds that sour cabbage. But that's the whole beauty of this tea. Those sour notes are gradually changing into the Jam like taste. For Shai Hong tea the best time is between 2 - 6 years , that's why 1st year is cheaper ( or at least we sell like that ) .

White tea
In certain extend like puerh and it's nice to drink already from the 1st year. Speak of the storage, I had only 6y old Kunming and was nice. My wife had apparently 18 y old in GZ tea expo. back in 10 y ago , she says it was flower & sweet.
I'm personally skeptical to aged stuff coming out from places with relative high humidity , since tea tends to mature faster and I'm not trained for this type of storage ( means I can not distinguish 5 or 10 years storage by taste in most of the cases ). Considering the fact that GZ people are good in business ( in any aspects ) , I generally take any age claims there with grain of salt.

Oolong tea
I'm not expert on this , I believe somebody else will have to say more about it , but as far as I know if stored in Fujian , GZ or any other place with higher humidity , the leafs have to be re-roasted every 2 years or so in order to keep them with some flavor. In my understanding , the high humidity causes sort of " brewing effect " on those leafs so they are loosing the taste. By re-roasting you dry-out the excessive water from leafs but adding more of the charcoal flavor , which becomes dominant after few of those " roasting years " .
There is a oolong ageing , which I believe , is in vacuum packaging. I have no idea about details, again, I believe somebody else will add something to it .
What I know from Fujian oolong vendors in our market is that oolong is not meant to be made for long term storage , but for drinking now. Any additional steps ( processing , storage adjustments ) are for just extending the life time but not improving the taste with time. Maybe they are wrong or not aware of new or even traditional concepts in different places out of China.

There is also concept of aged Dan Cong, which I'm not sure about . I rather smell the commercial background ( like vendors /farmers / producers failed to sell it 1st year so by adding a popular label " aged " will do the sales ) than actual beneficial one. I believe the processing might have extend the time for storage which might in certain way improve some taste elements , but I doubt that is the major factor of the tea.
I have 3 years old DC and it's still good to drink, however can not say for sure if any improvements in taste since I do not observe it. Yet definitely it is not the noticeable change as with puerh. In "wet" environment those changes might be more noticeable but question is if the change in taste is the actual transformation in tea leaf or just added wet notes to the taste......many tea drinkers fail to distinguish that....especially with aged puerhs.

I do not have any personal experience with "gone off" tea and health issues / discomfort related ....etc.
User avatar
Bok
Vendor
Posts: 5782
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:55 am
Location: Taiwan

Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:44 am

aet wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:40 pm

Oolong tea
I'm not expert on this , I believe somebody else will have to say more about it , but as far as I know if stored in Fujian , GZ or any other place with higher humidity , the leafs have to be re-roasted every 2 years or so in order to keep them with some flavor. In my understanding , the high humidity causes sort of " brewing effect " on those leafs so they are loosing the taste. By re-roasting you dry-out the excessive water from leafs but adding more of the charcoal flavor , which becomes dominant after few of those " roasting years " .
There is a oolong ageing , which I believe , is in vacuum packaging. I have no idea about details, again, I believe somebody else will add something to it .
What I know from Fujian oolong vendors in our market is that oolong is not meant to be made for long term storage , but for drinking now. Any additional steps ( processing , storage adjustments ) are for just extending the life time but not improving the taste with time. Maybe they are wrong or not aware of new or even traditional concepts in different places out of China.

There is also concept of aged Dan Cong, which I'm not sure about . I rather smell the commercial background ( like vendors /farmers / producers failed to sell it 1st year so by adding a popular label " aged " will do the sales ) than actual beneficial one. I believe the processing might have extend the time for storage which might in certain way improve some taste elements , but I doubt that is the major factor of the tea.
I have 3 years old DC and it's still good to drink, however can not say for sure if any improvements in taste since I do not observe it. Yet definitely it is not the noticeable change as with puerh. In "wet" environment those changes might be more noticeable but question is if the change in taste is the actual transformation in tea leaf or just added wet notes to the taste......many tea drinkers fail to distinguish that....especially with aged puerhs.
Aged oolongs in all styles are among the most expensive teas one can buy in Taiwan, so something good is definitely happening with those teas. But usually there is an intermediate period where a lot of them taste very boring. I had teas from the 1980s/90s and less old, they can be something quite amazing... due to prices, I have a few jars put, with tea aging away nicely. You are right, a lot of aged tea on the market is just tea that hadn't sold, often blends of several different batches or even teas. Can be quite funky at times :mrgreen:

I have also had the good fortune of having good friends and being able to taste a Dancong from the 70s which was a very memorable tea! I'd give oolong at least 5yers plus to develop something interesting, before better consume them 1-3y old.
User avatar
Bok
Vendor
Posts: 5782
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:55 am
Location: Taiwan

Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:46 am

and then it's also a question of "how long can you wait?"

I had a Japanese green tea from the 1940s and also a 10y+ Longjing, which were both outstanding and special experiences.
Ethan Kurland
Vendor
Posts: 1026
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:01 am
Location: Boston
Contact:

Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:57 pm

I have 3 aged oolongs that demonstrate the difficulty & sensible decisions concerning aging:

Father's Love is aged the least. I think it wise of the tea master to stop the aging when he did. There is very little room for improvement. Without any great harshness, no mellowing is called for. There is no problem to solve. One could be tempted to continue the aging because it is rare to start with top quality leaves that were roasted so carefully & perfectly. One might want to see what 15 or 20 years would do. However, less than 6 years worked so well.

The tea from 2005 is aged much longer & is excellent; but, perhaps the urns should have been opened sooner or later than they were. One can understand that it is not as good as Father's Love which started with an exceptionally good harvest of organic leaves, while 2005 was normally fine but not rare highest quality. Once urns are open, they can be resealed but again decisions are made on whether more time aging will create significantly better tea.

The tea from 1998 more clearly shows a most specific benefit of aging, mellowness. One can enjoyably drink vast quantities of it all day long. Surprisingly, some sessions drinkers taste an array of flavors that with the 2005 seem to blend into one flavor (delicious but simple) & even with Father's Love often don't seem as distinct.

The 3 teas together also show how alluring & difficult a concept can be. If I describe the 1998 & say how old it is, one might think he needs to get that tea to satisfy a specific desire for the flavors mellowness, & ……….. (je ne c'est quoi). On the other hand, one can drink the 2005 to get what aging is about quite well & use a very good Oriental Beauty for a special variety of flavors that 1998 sometimes provides drinkers.

Less alluring is hearing that an oolong that is being called special was "only" aged 5 1/2 years, but Father's Love for me & some other people is a fantastic tea. Aging is a significant reason why it is what it is, so it should be mentioned, but it is also a confusing for me to say it is the best "aged" tea that I have when relatively speaking, it is "hardly" aged.

What's nice for us the confused, is finding people who somehow got some major things right. I remember excellent aged teas bought about 6 years ago from Hou de Asia & Red Blossoms that were delicious. They were very expensive (I hope I am not snarky competing vendor by saying, actually overpriced), but they were also worth it. They taught me a lot about how many ways teas can taste good. The stories: tea was found in a corner of a storeroom where it had been forgotten. Never roasted until it was opened 10 years later & somehow that produced wonderful flavors..... Stories or not, what was said about flavor was accurate enough. Special = special, but "special" means different things to us at different times. As does aging.
User avatar
mbanu
Posts: 962
Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 3:45 pm

Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:25 am

Ethan Kurland wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:57 pm
The stories: tea was found in a corner of a storeroom where it had been forgotten. Never roasted until it was opened 10 years later & somehow that produced wonderful flavors..... Stories or not, what was said about flavor was accurate enough.
I am always skeptical of "forgotten" tea. Keeping products that don't sell or losing track of products that could have sold is a good way to lose a business. A lot of these old teas also seem to rely on folks not knowing much about the historical tea market, so there won't be any questions like, "Why wasn't this tea sold when it was made, or why was it made when it couldn't be sold?"
User avatar
Bok
Vendor
Posts: 5782
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:55 am
Location: Taiwan

Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:46 am

mbanu wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:25 am
Ethan Kurland wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:57 pm
The stories: tea was found in a corner of a storeroom where it had been forgotten. Never roasted until it was opened 10 years later & somehow that produced wonderful flavors..... Stories or not, what was said about flavor was accurate enough.
I am always skeptical of "forgotten" tea. Keeping products that don't sell or losing track of products that could have sold is a good way to lose a business. A lot of these old teas also seem to rely on folks not knowing much about the historical tea market, so there won't be any questions like, "Why wasn't this tea sold when it was made, or why was it made when it couldn't be sold?"
Exactly... forgotten teas are also often thrown-together blends of various teas and qualities. More often than not, nasty experiences.
Ethan Kurland
Vendor
Posts: 1026
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:01 am
Location: Boston
Contact:

Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:21 am

Bok wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:46 am
mbanu wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:25 am
Ethan Kurland wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:57 pm
The stories: tea was found in a corner of a storeroom where it had been forgotten. Never roasted until it was opened 10 years later & somehow that produced wonderful flavors..... Stories or not, what was said about flavor was accurate enough.
I am always skeptical of "forgotten" tea. Keeping products that don't sell or losing track of products that could have sold is a good way to lose a business. A lot of these old teas also seem to rely on folks not knowing much about the historical tea market, so there won't be any questions like, "Why wasn't this tea sold when it was made, or why was it made when it couldn't be sold?"
Exactly... forgotten teas are also often thrown-together blends of various teas and qualities. More often than not, nasty experiences.
Purchasing online as a newbie, I was lucky with aged tea. With other teas, I often was not. The best vendors that I was lucky enough to find early soon went out of business. (I guess it does not profit to sell honestly at fair prices.) Cheers
User avatar
wave_code
Posts: 575
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:10 pm
Location: Germany

Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:42 pm

one thing I wonder about is how the volume of tea stored together affects its shelf life - what is an ideal minimal volume for storing certain teas. I feel like I have had some teas, mainly blacks, that shouldn't be left for too long, but when kept around in larger volume they seemed to have a longer/more stable shelf life, maintain more aroma. Then you get down to the last few brews worth and start spacing it out more as a special tea since it will be gone soon, and then the quality seems to really plummet pretty quickly. Also a good thing to keep in mind that even if you can't get more, its best not to over-savor the last bit you might have of something in case you miss it in its prime.
Ethan Kurland
Vendor
Posts: 1026
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:01 am
Location: Boston
Contact:

Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:29 pm

wave_code wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:42 pm
one thing I wonder about is how the volume of tea stored together affects its shelf life - what is an ideal minimal volume for storing certain teas.....

Also a good thing to keep in mind that even if you can't get more, its best not to over-savor the last bit you might have of something in case you miss it in its prime.
Once a sealed pack is opened One is likely to notice changes in the tea after a couple of weeks or so. That is much different than tea stored in closed in packaging that is not allowing air inside.

+1 for your wise advice not to over-savor & 0bsess about saving last bits of tea.
User avatar
wave_code
Posts: 575
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:10 pm
Location: Germany

Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:09 am

I find even with teas where the package has been open for a while and are then a little more shelf stable, like a shou, I'll notice very little change for a considerable time if I have it stored in quantity, but then if you are down to say 25g or less it really loses its stability and can drop off super fast. I guess when stored in larger quality aromatics and other things are preserved more and there is less surface area being exposed even just to the air in the container and less other leaves to draw moisture out off.
Post Reply