British taste in, and knowledge of, tea

Noonie
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:30 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:49 am

I read in a book about tea (can’t recall which one) that the upper class would initially drink tea without milk and sugar. When the lower classes also wanted tea they couldn’t afford it as easily so they diluted in milk. And that stuck.
rdl
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:43 am

Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:33 am

I am curious if the rise in tea consumption had anything to do with the gin craze and the British government's efforts to limit drinking gin in the mid-18th c.
User avatar
Bok
Vendor
Posts: 5785
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:55 am
Location: Taiwan

Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:45 am

rdl wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:33 am
I am curious if the rise in tea consumption had anything to do with the gin craze and the British government's efforts to limit drinking gin in the mid-18th c.
I remember reading somewhere else that it had indeed to do with an effort to curb alcohol consumption. Alcohol was safer to drink than pure water at the time (at least in the cities, as far as I am aware).
User avatar
mbanu
Posts: 962
Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 3:45 pm

Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:25 am

Noonie wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:49 am
I read in a book about tea (can’t recall which one) that the upper class would initially drink tea without milk and sugar. When the lower classes also wanted tea they couldn’t afford it as easily so they diluted in milk. And that stuck.
Milk and sugar were popularized at separate times, I think. I'm not sure of the details, although this is a good blog for 17th and 18th century tea history if you are curious: https://qmhistoryoftea.wordpress.com/2013/06/


For tea pricing it is a bit more complicated; in the early years, the cheap tea was usually bought by three groups, and avoided by everyone else:

1. Rich folks buying tea for their servants.
2. Penny-pinchers (who were criticized by some as being penny-wise pound-foolish, and praised by others for their thrift)
3. Poor people who were buying on credit and were barred from the better-quality teas by the merchant as a hedge against nonpayment.

The poor tended to buy the highest-quality tea that was available to them, which sometimes lead to criticism that they were living above their means.

This was mentioned in an 1837 Parliamentary report that included a bunch of interviews with tea merchants, as they were trying to figure out who exactly drank bohea, congou, and souchong in England so that it would be clear how changing the way tea duties were assessed would impact the tea-drinking populace.
rdl wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:33 am
I am curious if the rise in tea consumption had anything to do with the gin craze and the British government's efforts to limit drinking gin in the mid-18th c.
I think this was argued over. Some believed that tea promoted temperance, while others thought that the cure was as bad as the disease. This second opinion is a little harder to understand today, but I think it had to do with the level of adulteration in tea, rather than being a comparison between alcohol and pure tea. Also at that time, it was really only spirits that had the negative reputation; beer was considered more wholesome. Gin Lane was contrasted with Beer Street rather than Tea Road. :)
cliffjudith
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:43 am
Location: Midlands, England

Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:46 pm

I am British but different to most in my tea preference and interest. I can add a great deal to this topic. Do you wish me to comment on the history of British black tea preference. I am happy to do so if you are all still present o this thread.
User avatar
Victoria
Admin
Posts: 3045
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:33 pm
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Contact:

Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:12 pm

cliffjudith wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:46 pm
I am British but different to most in my tea preference and interest. I can add a great deal to this topic. Do you wish me to comment on the history of British black tea preference. I am happy to do so if you are all still present o this thread.
Please do share @cliffjudith. Looking forward to getting your take on topic.
Chris
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:11 pm
Location: US

Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:31 pm

Victoria wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:12 pm
Please do share cliffjudith. Looking forward to getting your take on topic.
Seconded!
User avatar
bentz98125
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:08 pm
Location: Seattle

Thu Apr 09, 2020 11:26 am

Absolutely, first hand accounts are often the best!
User avatar
bentz98125
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:08 pm
Location: Seattle

Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:05 pm

So are tea consumption patterns/preferences and the class system in Britain really so intertwined? If so, does coffee share that characteristic? (I've heard there is some association of coffee houses in the past with political life.) Being from the western US where classless meritocracy is as self-evident as guns, God, and country, I find evidence of class as perplexing as it is fascinating. Doubly so if it involves tea.
User avatar
VoirenTea
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:49 am
Contact:

Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:41 am

@bentz98125 : you do have assumptions/stereotypes/differences between blue-collar and white-collar workers though, right?

I don't really know about coffee - I would assume that Starbucks and similar were more of a middle class thing while cafes/takeaways that just sell tea and coffee would be either, but no actual evidence to that effect.

It does seem to be the case that plumbers and builders still ask for tea, at least in my experience. (Which can be tricky in my house, as we don't usually have any 'normal' black tea!)
Ethan Kurland
Vendor
Posts: 1027
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:01 am
Location: Boston
Contact:

Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:18 am

bentz98125 wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:05 pm
... Being from the western US where classless meritocracy is as self-evident as guns, God, and country,
That's interesting, provocative, & ultimately difficult to understand completely. "self-evident as guns, God, and country." to all or to some? How does that meritocracy display itself in the world of tea?
User avatar
Baisao
Posts: 1399
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:17 pm
Location: ATX

Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:05 am

Regarding the provincialism of taste: in Acadiana we drink two brands of coffee: Seaport and Community. They are brewed strong too. Chicory coffee is sometimes made but this is seen as more of a New Orleans thing, which is outside of Acadiana. And may God have mercy on your soul if you make Folgers or something fancy, hahahaha!

So, back to the English and tea: some fact and some opinion.

The Chinese were wary of the British and would not allow them to have their own plantations. The British were forced to buy tea from the Chinese and they tea they were buying was Camillia sinensis-sinensis. Of course the British didn’t like this arrangement so they looked elsewhere. Specifically, they looked to India.

The British East India Company worked with an Indian gentleman of some high birth and education to find a camellia plant suitable for tea. What he found was Camillia sinensis-assamica. The Indian gentleman was led to believe he would manage plantations of tea to sell to the Company so he worked in earnest developing their assamica until the Company saw him as an impediment and had him executed.

The Company took control of the plantations and shipped assamica back home, and they no longer needed China.

So those are the facts as I know them.

Now for an opinion that is sure to ruffle some feathers.

C. sinensis-assamica is inferior in taste to the more refined C. sinensis-sinensis. It’s twangy and more bitter. To correct these imperfections you would ideally add milk to attenuate the twanginess and sugar to make the bitterness more palatable. These are steps you do not need to take with C. sinensis-sinensis. So it is my opinion that milk and sugar are added to British tea (assamica) to make it palatable.
User avatar
bentz98125
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:08 pm
Location: Seattle

Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:40 pm

VoirenTea wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:41 am
@bentz98125 : you do have assumptions/stereotypes/differences between blue-collar and white-collar workers though, right?

I don't really know about coffee - I would assume that Starbucks and similar were more of a middle class thing while cafes/takeaways that just sell tea and coffee would be either, but no actual evidence to that effect.

It does seem to be the case that plumbers and builders still ask for tea, at least in my experience. (Which can be tricky in my house, as we don't usually have any 'normal' black tea!)
Yes I do. And I consider class as almost as good a guide to understanding the US of A as race. But that view is a decided minority among white americans (except perhaps for some "elite, educated, snobs"). My perplexity and fascination with the British blue collar association with 'normal' black tea, stems from how un-blue collar it is in the US. (Which is peculiar since if I understand correctly, it wasn't until the 1950's that american coffee drinking caught up with, and then surpassed, tea. And the same history attributed the transition of tea companies from loose leaf to tea bags as a marketing response to the invention of instant coffee.) Starbucks did used to signify white collar status back when a cup of coffee could still be had for less than a dollar but now that Starbucks and its style of coffee have become the standard throughout the country, 'latte sipping' as an anti-urban elite epithet is ironic since the true snobby urban coffee epicures sneer at 'corporate, MacDonald's' coffee!
User avatar
bentz98125
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:08 pm
Location: Seattle

Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:01 pm

Baisao wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:05 am

Now for an opinion that is sure to ruffle some feathers.

C. sinensis-assamica is inferior in taste to the more refined C. sinensis-sinensis. It’s twangy and more bitter. To correct these imperfections you would ideally add milk to attenuate the twanginess and sugar to make the bitterness more palatable. These are steps you do not need to take with C. sinensis-sinensis. So it is my opinion that milk and sugar are added to British tea (assamica) to make it palatable.
Ruffled feathers or no, the colonial roots of an 'inferior' flavor preference certainly tickles my intuition! Some attribue the initial preference for 'inferior' robusta and resistance to the 'superior' arabica coffee beans, among coffee drinkers back when Brazilian robusta beans used to dominate coffee sales, to an acquired preference for the flavor of a mold that used to grow on robusta beans during lengthy maritime transit!
User avatar
bentz98125
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:08 pm
Location: Seattle

Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:54 pm

Interesting article on historical british tea ceramics displayed at the NY Metropolitan Museum of Art:

https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2020/04/1 ... galleries/

Only escalates my wonder at the contrast between the role of sugar in tea culture in europe and america where sugar is disolved in tea and in China, Korea, and Japan where sugar at most is used in sweets as apertif or digestif. Given european ownership of sugar plantations, can we separate flavor preferences from economic self-interest? Also, (as with US independence from Britain) did socializing over tea and sugar ironically play a role in abolition of slavery?
Post Reply