TeaForum.org

just a general tea buying research:

If there is a tea you like ( type of tea ) and there are two versions available in same grade and year of production :
1) organic EU certified
2) non organic .

Which one would you choose and what price difference would put u off to buy the organic one ( I believe organic is always more expensive ) .

Example : Bi Luo Chun - I'm willing to pay extra 50% more for the organic version.
If conditions would be different withing different types of teas , also can write the particular tea.
For example:
shu puerh - don't care for organic
sheng puerh - up to 30% pay extra for organic
green tea - up to 50% can pay for organic...etc.

If you can post your previous experience / example would be great!
Example : I got a black organic 50g for 15$ which normally costs only 9$ non organic.

I want to focus more on organic teas this year, but seems like not many people care , or just say they do , but when learn that price is much higher , they loosing the interest. So I would like to know some barriers of price tolerance in order to count if I'm not wasting my time on it.


Cheers!

For me it really depends on the taste of the tea.

If both teas are equally nice, but one is organic, I would opt for the more expensive one. 30% is acceptable.

If the organic one is slightly inferior, I might still spring for it, but if the taste difference is too big I always opt for the better tea.

Organic does sadly not automatically equal better taste, still depends on who is making the tea.

+1 to Bok's comments. I add skepticism: Certifying inspectors may come to farms etc. for a thorough initial inspection; then, what happens? I worry less about organic tea from Nepal since there are huge areas of land that have never had chemicals used there.

Searching for Ruby Jade #18 that I liked, the first good one that I found was organic. I bought some because of the situation (I had stayed with the family for 3 days) though it was terribly expensive & I prefer to buy tea that is better than good.

Years later I found non-organic #18 that was much better & 80% cheaper than the organic. (Also some Ruby Jade #21.)

++1 Agree with Ethan and Bok comments. 30% more. I typically buy from smaller farmers who do not use pesticide and or are very selective in their use. Right now I’m sipping on an organic award winning partially shaded sencha, it cost less than better known sencha of similar quality at just 15$ for 100gr. Probably an anomaly though.

Victoria wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:55 am

. I typically buy from smaller farmers who do not use pesticide and ...

(if I may) use fertilizer sparingly and only if really needed.

I think pesticides effect tea more than fertilizers, especially if fertilizers are used minimally. It's encouraging to see tea grown amongst patches of vegetables & rows of fruit trees. Although there is not crop rotation, I feel (don't know) that something positive happens. Most of the tea that I have is grown on Mt. Li which has some of the tastiest fruit that I have eaten.

Good edit @Ethan Kurland! Concur with you on that;
I typically buy from smaller farmers who do not use pesticide and use fertilizer sparingly and only if really needed.

thanks guys for participating!

Price : companies possessing EU certified tea garden ( which means that generally around 500 residues do not exceed more than 0.01-0.03mg/kg ) charging for their tea 2-3 times more than I can find on local tea market in not organic version. Also some of them are "spamming" / targeting foreign groups on FB with same price offer, so no point for us to cooperate.

Small farms: as it's commonly believed that small farmers do not use the fertilizers and pesticides. They do , and in some places even for arbor trees ( known as Gushu ) . They have long stick / pipe to for that to reach on top of the tree as well. Next time I see it , I'll take a picture and share.
Need to understand that small farmers have only certain amount of harvest each year from their small garden / field and that need to be "efficient" ( means had to get out of it as much as they can ) . If weather is bad ( which also cause more insects attacking the leafs ) , they have no other choice. Specially remote areas where no other option for them to go to town for different work ( another money income ) , so the tea is their only survival.
Few years ago we were in place where local gov. even offering fertilizer for free if farmer cuts down his arbors down to easy pluck-able size and increase accessibility ( therefore efficiency ) of harvesting.
Some tea gardens are located in nice , not polluted place but yet, there can be a field of corn or anything else near by , where fertilizers are used , and during the rain season all shit comes down with water.
After what I've seen on my tea sourcing trips , I will never dare to claim that tea is organic unless I run my own tests ( or send it to the lab ). I know that some vendors claim to do so, but I don't see it economically making sense if buying 10-50kg batch.
Tests: To make a EU test costs round 800$ ( in Europe ) and around 1200$ in China. That's per single batch.
I don't know how much is for the US , but I believe it's not a only $$ matter either. Yet, that's the test which will reveal if tea is or not organic, so if not , no body will return you the money for that test and you still don't have organic tea to sell.
Some vendors rely on supplier's paper / word , then being caught when tea is being stopped by customs of the country where pest control is strict and they actually do check sample from the box.
Quality : we have tried to source some EU cert teas and recommend to our clients. I don't know if that was the processing or harvest it self but people weren't much excited with organic version even without considering the price. Yet, of course, asking me if can get the organic one with taste of non organic
Sourcing from Gushu: of course that many areas where old arbor tea tree gardens are, there is forbidden to use any chemicals. But that means you can buy tea which vendor sourcing him self directly from the garden ( not his "friends" , co no friend in China, just a biz partners , cultural thing ) . I see some vendors , not even being in China , yet posting on website every year quite a lot of Gushu teas from very different areas. That would require quite lots of flights and driving around even for few people working together. And no, you cant see on google maps which exactly trees farmers plucking for you in real time
And anyway, you are limited only to sheng puerh tea , because there is no any other tea ( except black tea if Lincang area / FQ for example ) where would be genuine arbor material these days. It's pricey and nobody will dare to use that kind of material to make tea which can last only few years ( especially now with such a slow buying tendency / slowing economy ) .
If black tea, that would be some Wild variety ( ye sheng ) but there are also fake ones ( tai di mixed with ya bao ) , or Sun dried ( shai hong ) , coz that can last around 6 years.

Anyway, Im not giving up, there must a be some easier solution.

aet wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:25 pm

( not his "friends" , co no friend in China, just a biz partners , cultural thing ) .

Had to smile at this... The business environment in China really is something quite apart from other places, a lot of energy and the speed at which some things are done, is astounding!

Although you are mainly referencing Puerh, I think most of what you say is equally true for most teas in- and outside of China.

I do have little hopes though that the facts you stated will change people's minds on what they are purchasing, everyone always thinks the tea they bough with that whole back story is the glorious exception of the rule... to a certain extent consumers (especially in the West it seems to me) almost want to be lied to. They expect a certain kind of story. The same also respect a "tea master" so much more if he wears old-man-style-gong-fu-clothing... not to forget the little beard

Wanting organic and sustainable tea, all the while insta-gramming their ecologically correct tea on the latest not-sustainable-landscape-polluting, factory-workers-health-destroying iPhone

Bok wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:00 pm

to a certain extent consumers (especially in the West it seems to me) almost want to be lied to. They expect a certain kind of story. The same also respect a "tea master" so much more if he wears old-man-style-gong-fu-clothing... not to forget the little beard

Wanting organic and sustainable tea, all the while insta-gramming their ecologically correct tea on the latest not-sustainable-landscape-polluting, factory-workers-health-destroying iPhone

lol so true

Just curious. For those of you who would prefer to purchase organic tea, or do purchase organic, how many of you currently buy organic fruits and vegetables?

t-curious wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:02 am

Just curious. For those of you who would prefer to purchase organic tea, or do purchase organic, how many of you currently buy organic fruits and vegetables?

it's a fair point. In Europe somebody made a pest test on some Spanish tomatoes ( year ago ) and found out that there are more pests than in generally imported Chinese tea. Like somebody released results in numbers and tea guys were comparing it with stuff ( tea ) begin caught by customs. Not mentioning the fact that vegetables are to be consumed all, but tea is just dissolving into the water.
There is a certain paranoia and maybe a "war" against import from China. Of course , speak of the tea it plays well for the concept : customer protection purposes.

I buy organic when ever possible and go by the dirty dozen list for fruits and vegetables. They test after washing and peeling, so the pesticides they find have penetrated the surface. With teas I try and stick with vendors and farmers who are selective, opting for clean teas .

Victoria wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:24 pm

With teas I try and stick with vendors and farmers who are selective, opting for clean teas .

would you share with a community how do you select those vendors / farmers? Your personal guideline?
Thanks.

aet wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:36 pm

Victoria wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:24 pm

With teas I try and stick with vendors and farmers who are selective, opting for clean teas .

would you share with a community how do you select those vendors / farmers? Your personal guideline?
Thanks.

Oh, well usually first comes a recommendation (or a gift) from another tea drinker I respect and or an article I read. Then curiosity kicks in, so I look for information posted about them and their teas, location, elevation, cultivar, tasting profile etc. Sometimes I’m able to visit the vendor and just try out their teas, that’s a nice way to go, but not always possible. If what I see and hear resonates I order a few teas to check them out. Each tea curator has a particular style that is expressed in their selections. Sometimes their style resonates with mine .

Victoria wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:26 pm

I look for information posted about them and their teas, location, elevation, cultivar, tasting profile etc.

so if I understand correctly , those are elements which makes you decide if the tea is clean ( alias organic ) or not. right?