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I was fortunate enough to be at the Northwest Tea Festival last weekend where I gave a presentation on confronting counterfeit tea. Here is a blog the came out of that presentation: https://tillermantea.net/2018/10/counterfeit/

Thanks, nice read as always!

Some great points in here.
Id love to hear what percentages of that Taiwanese exportation goes where.
I feel another great way to avoid passing off is to become involved in group buys. 8 Tea heads is better than one

Brent D wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:31 pm

Some great points in here.
Id love to hear what percentages of that Taiwanese exportation goes where.
I feel another great way to avoid passing off is to become involved in group buys. 8 Tea heads is better than one

My guess is the lion part of those fake high mountain teas is sold as Alishan or simple labelled as Gaoshan. At popular tourist spots, sold to mainly Chinese or Japanese tourists. Also a pretty good chance to get ripped off is trying to buy at the farms, a lot have already sold or reserved their own tea for retailers and sell the import tea.

Bok wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:46 pm

Brent D wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:31 pm

Some great points in here.
Id love to hear what percentages of that Taiwanese exportation goes where.
I feel another great way to avoid passing off is to become involved in group buys. 8 Tea heads is better than one

My guess is the lion part of those fake high mountain teas is sold as Alishan or simple labelled as Gaoshan. At popular tourist spots, sold to mainly Chinese or Japanese tourists. Also a pretty good chance to get ripped off is trying to buy at the farms, a lot have already sold or reserved their own tea for retailers and sell the import tea.

Bok, I think you are correct; most (but not all, by any means e.g. DYL) of the counterfeit stuff is sold as Alishan or as Gaoshan (and you are absolutely correct about buying at the farm.) However, sales to Chinese tourists visiting Taiwan don't count as export sales so there is still a heck of a lot of Taiwan's exports that aren't really Taiwanese. I suspect that up to half of what comes into the US isn't the real McCoy.

Tillerman wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:37 am

I suspect that up to half of what comes into the US isn't the real McCoy.

Makes sense, prime suspects probably being the large tea brands in the US and Europe. Not sure if it would make sense for them to import relatively small quantity high price tea. They can not have tea sold out all the time, they need a more constant supply to keep their customer base happy.

Smaller outfits can run on an exclusivity and limited supply model.

Although smaller outfits will run into the problem of getting access to specialty tea, as they might not have the buying power and take enough off the farmers shoulder to make it worth his while. I guess some individual operations also fall into the same traps, trusting the friendly farmer they shook hands with, looking for a leaf to cup experience.

@Tillerman maybe you can help, I just got another gifted tea, a Dayuling. The packaging has a very similar looking seal to the one on the Fushoushan cans. Is there a relationship of some kind, or just mimicry?

Bok wrote: ↑

Mon May 20, 2019 10:22 am

Tillerman maybe you can help, I just got another gifted tea, a Dayuling. The packaging has a very similar looking seal to the one on the Fushoushan cans. Is there a relationship of some kind, or just mimicry?

@Bok as you know, I am suspicious of anything sold as Da Yu Ling. Most gadens in the region, and certainly all of the high ones, are no longer. That doesn't mean the tea isn't Da Yu Ling, just be alert to the fact that maybe.... The main question though, is the tea any good?

As to the question of the seals, I believe it is either mimicry or coincidence (note that the seals are not identical.) Fushoushan Farm has nothing in the Da Yu Ling area even though it is but a short distance away (albeit an exceedingly slow and very dangerous drive along Hwy. 8)

@Tillerman thanks! Of course I am suspicious as well, but with a gift I did not pay the price at least and the truth lies in the cup

Just found it interesting how the designs resemble each other closely, like they belong to some sort of government connection. Anyways, haven’t opened it yet, still adjusting to climate change from fridge to outside.

Bok wrote: ↑

Mon May 20, 2019 7:19 pm

Just found it interesting how the designs resemble each other closely, like they belong to some sort of government connection.

@Bok The "faute de formation" of the graphic designer.

@Tillerman just opened it, definitely real! The cup doesn’t lie. See “what Oolong are you drinking.”

well, the problem is , that many people want authentic tea for common price. That leads vendors to sell 10$ tea with 100$ story
speak of pu-erh tea:
Location is important not only for vendors but also for drinkers. Each area has it's taste specifics and there is a big difference between Bulang or Yiwu for example.
Should tea be called A and B , you would have to stick to 1 vendor for good, since other vendor might use the names other way around
I believe that it's about the cases like LBZ for 10$ incl. shipping. In that case is clear , but some comparing prices could be harder if difference is not that radical.
Comparing prices : it is doable with big factory produced teas , yet, the researcher would have to take in account the vendor's expenses. Means know why vendor A sell 100$ cake and why vendor B only 60$ very same cake. The answer might not be the " fake " , but that vendor A has workers, shop in big expensive city or mortgage to pay .....and so on. Those things are not easy to research , especially online shop . It is big difference of m2 rent in Kunming and in Shenzhen, HK or NY with London for example. Not mentioning the salaries. So vendor's location can be a slight guideline.

Speak of non factory / branded teas, it get much more complicated. Many factors are involved in final price along with those mentioned above. Unless you know the price of fresh tea leafs specifically for that tea in that area ( place , garden ) particular season, amount which was purchased by vendor / producer and sold by particular farmer ( same place different farmers also have different prices, also same farmer with different buyers have different prices ...depends on you cooperation concept with farmer ) . So easy said, u'll never get it right.

Things get more complicated when "free shipping " is involved. You would have to research how much the actual shipping fee cots from the sender's place. Some vendors might have postal contract with better prices. So only way is to check the similar similar item ( like 357g cake ) which is not set with free shipping form the same vendor and see the actual shipping fee.
I don't see in reality normal person spending hours of researching anything of that. Just simply go on some forum like this one, ask question about tea vendor, will get forwarded to first 2-5 big names and that's about it

Anyway, nice article. Good job.

aet wrote: ↑

Sat May 25, 2019 9:55 am

well, the problem is , that many people want authentic tea for common price. That leads vendors to sell 10$ tea with 100$ story

Many good points.

Especially in the West, people seem to want *and buy* the story...
Personally I do not care about any story, I only trust what is in the cup and at the limit a few select tea friends whose taste in tea I know and trust.

Bok wrote: ↑

Sat May 25, 2019 10:11 am

Personally I do not care about any story, I only trust what is in the cup and at the limit a few select tea friends whose taste in tea I know and trust.

That is as it should be. Is the image Paris Street, Rainy Day by Caillebotte any less beautiful because it is a high quality reproduction? Only in the mind, I think.

Nonetheless, when something is sold as an "original" (as opposed to a great image) it ought to be that. Price is only one very crude indicator of authenticity; as @aet notes, there are many factors that go into establishing a price point.