TeaForum.org

Hello Everyone. I'll throw a blog that I am part of out there starting with a translated article I put up here. I like to find articles on topics I am interested in through Chinese blogs and forums, and translate them into English for others to see. I'm an advocate for promoting access to a larger circle of the tea world that some folks here may not have convenient access to. Our other currently active member, Alex, has some interesting posts on storage as well as other topics. Hopefully people may find something of interest. Thank you for your time!

Oolong_Nug wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:21 pm

Hello Everyone. I'll throw a blog that I am part of out there starting with a translated article I put up here. I like to find articles on topics I am interested in through Chinese blogs and forums, and put translate them into English for others to see. I'm an advocate for promoting access to a larger circle of the tea world that some folks here may not have convenient access to. Our other currently active member, Alex, has some interesting posts on storage as well as other topics. Hopefully people may find something of interest. Thank you for your time!

Thanks - this is a great effort!

Tillerman wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:36 pm

Thanks - this is a great effort!

Thank you very much!

Thanks Nug.

Just wanted to add that your translation of 'wild tea' seems accurate to me. Most tea that we've come across that is perceived as 'wild' is still owned by somebody in a 'garden', it just isn't cared for in the same way as 'not wild' tea (i.e. no pruning, fertilizer, pesticide, etc.).

Additionally, I will not pretend to know much about Pu'Er as it is not our focus area, but in other teas you do see a similar theme that 'plantation teas' are low quality. In the end, it really depends on how the plantation is being run. I've seen several large operations (not sure what the exact definition of a plantation is) that care for their teas and produce a better, safer, and cheaper product than other much smaller, family run operations. I still believe that smaller operations have the potential to produce better tea... they have a higher ceiling, if you will, but they also can be much much worse.

Mathematically, I would say that plantation teas and smaller, family run operations probably produce the same quality tea on average (same mean), but the family-run operations have a much wider distribution with a significantly lower kurtosis and fatter tails.

Just my 2 cents.

chofmann wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:37 am

Mathematically, I would say that plantation teas and smaller, family run operations probably produce the same quality tea on average (same mean), but the family-run operations have a much wider distribution with a significantly lower kurtosis and fatter tails.

I often think I am getting smart about tea & what people say about it & then "kurtosis and fatter tails." ends a post making me realize I know very little. No dictionary handy but I'll look it up. cheers

Ethan Kurland wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:24 am

chofmann wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:37 am

Mathematically, I would say that plantation teas and smaller, family run operations probably produce the same quality tea on average (same mean), but the family-run operations have a much wider distribution with a significantly lower kurtosis and fatter tails.

I often think I am getting smart about tea & what people say about it & then "kurtosis and fatter tails." ends a post making me realize I know very little. No dictionary handy but I'll look it up. cheers

Don't worry, it isn't a tea thing. Just a statistics thing.



Think of it like this graph. If the x-axis is the quality of the tea and the y-axis is the probability that a particular farm falls into that quality:
Tea plantations are like the blue line --> all very similar in quality.
Small family farms are like the yellow line --> Some can be very far to the right, very good, but some are far to the left too, very bad.

chofmann wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:37 am

Thanks Nug.

Just wanted to add that your translation of 'wild tea' seems accurate to me. Most tea that we've come across that is perceived as 'wild' is still owned by somebody in a 'garden', it just isn't cared for in the same way as 'not wild' tea (i.e. no pruning, fertilizer, pesticide, etc.).

Additionally, I will not pretend to know much about Pu'Er as it is not our focus area, but in other teas you do see a similar theme that 'plantation teas' are low quality. In the end, it really depends on how the plantation is being run. I've seen several large operations (not sure what the exact definition of a plantation is) that care for their teas and produce a better, safer, and cheaper product than other much smaller, family run operations. I still believe that smaller operations have the potential to produce better tea... they have a higher ceiling, if you will, but they also can be much much worse.

Mathematically, I would say that plantation teas and smaller, family run operations probably produce the same quality tea on average (same mean), but the family-run operations have a much wider distribution with a significantly lower kurtosis and fatter tails.

Just my 2 cents.

Thanks for taking a look! Like most things, I'm sure there is a considerable amount of variation from garden to garden! I really find the perceptions and ideological camps that are created in tea culture to be absolutely fascinating, which is why I seek out articles like these ones. It seems that in the West, the consumer focus seems to be very heavily concentrated on single origin gushu/arbor teas (in pu'er). With Western health/quality concerns being as they have in our consumer mindset for quite some time now, It would be nice if there was more information available to people. I'm not here to say that the "trend" in the West is bad, either. There is amazing plantation tea out there, and producers that very much know what they are doing. I would just hope people try more than one or two teas of a category before deciding it isn't for them, or that all of it is inferior quality.

Oolong_Nug wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:56 am

chofmann wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:37 am

Thanks Nug.

Just wanted to add that your translation of 'wild tea' seems accurate to me. Most tea that we've come across that is perceived as 'wild' is still owned by somebody in a 'garden', it just isn't cared for in the same way as 'not wild' tea (i.e. no pruning, fertilizer, pesticide, etc.).

Additionally, I will not pretend to know much about Pu'Er as it is not our focus area, but in other teas you do see a similar theme that 'plantation teas' are low quality. In the end, it really depends on how the plantation is being run. I've seen several large operations (not sure what the exact definition of a plantation is) that care for their teas and produce a better, safer, and cheaper product than other much smaller, family run operations. I still believe that smaller operations have the potential to produce better tea... they have a higher ceiling, if you will, but they also can be much much worse.

Mathematically, I would say that plantation teas and smaller, family run operations probably produce the same quality tea on average (same mean), but the family-run operations have a much wider distribution with a significantly lower kurtosis and fatter tails.

Just my 2 cents.

It seems that in the West, the consumer focus seems to be very heavily concentrated on single origin gushu/arbor teas (in pu'er)... I would just hope people try more than one or two teas of a category before deciding it isn't for them, or that all of it is inferior quality.

They've tried many teas in the category and loved them! Unfortunately, they don't realize it and they think it is all gushu/single tree tea. Don't need to tell you that though, haha.

That was another topic I recently discussed with a vendor - even if you have a very old wild tree whatever, the tea can still be bad if the owner doesn’t know how to make tea or lacks talent and experience. On the other hand plantation tea in the hands of a skilful master can become very nice tea. Apart from the obvious health issues and pesticides.

The truth is in the cup, the rest are dreams and marketing!

Bok wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:05 am

Apart from the obvious health issues and pesticides.

Sounds like you didn't read the article. Not to say you're not absolutely correct in some cases - however this is precisely the "common knowledge" about plantation teas in Yunnan that the author wishes to address. To what extent reform has been made may vary from place to place, but I would say it is dangerous and harmful to consumer perception to blanket all plantation tea as pesticide ridden and harmful to health.

Oolong_Nug wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:22 pm

Bok wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:05 am

Apart from the obvious health issues and pesticides.

Sounds like you didn't read the article. Not to say you're not absolutely correct in some cases - however this is precisely the "common knowledge" about plantation teas in Yunnan that the author wishes to address. To what extent reform has been made may vary from place to place, but I would say it is dangerous and harmful to consumer perception to blanket all plantation tea as pesticide ridden and harmful to health.

I was not referring to the article but that aside from health issues, what is important is that the person who I actually tending to the leaves and making the tea is very important no matter if plantation or small operation.

Oolong_Nug wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:21 pm

Hello Everyone. I'll throw a blog that I am part of out there starting with a translated article I put up here. I like to find articles on topics I am interested in through Chinese blogs and forums, and translate them into English for others to see. I'm an advocate for promoting access to a larger circle of the tea world that some folks here may not have convenient access to. Our other currently active member, Alex, has some interesting posts on storage as well as other topics. Hopefully people may find something of interest. Thank you for your time!

I'm a little late to this thread, but it's interesting article. Thanks for posting!

I'm a little late to this thread, but it's interesting article. Thanks for posting!

Thank you for having a read!

Late to the party on this, but I've really been mystified by this cultural shift; what happened exactly in the early 2000s that caused this rejection of plantation technique? During the nationalization era, the goal seemed to be adoption of existing tea technologies and the invention of new ones, so you got things like ripe pu'er, discus cakes, and China slowly increasing its yield-per-hectare through good crop management techniques, adoption of clonal teas, etc. Today the Chinese tea scene more resembles that of the 19th century, with fantastically expensive genuine tea from limited areas where the trees are grown with little intervention against even blights and tea pests, and widespread misrepresentation, counterfeiting, and even adulteration to make up the difference.

What caused this? It seems like some folks are abandoning tea drinking because of this, at the time the study concluded in 2009, only 1 in 3 Chinese people were drinking any tea at all: https://lettersandscience.ucdavis.edu/n ... e-in-china (Anybody have any updates on this?)

Can anyone provide context?

I have no idea about the numbers of Chinese people drinking tea, but from what I see, yes, many young ones are either in Stabux or drinking that bubble-something, which is probably very from from the tea leaf. The one of the key problems ( why not tea but coffee or bubbles ) is the convenience. Although Dayi is trying hard to make it to the new generation by producing single brew sizes packed handy or opening the "coffee shop style tea shop" . We have one near to our house. Brewing the shu via coffee machine. Ive done it at home my self, it's fun.
Speak of Gushu and Tai Di. I happened to have a chat with person dedicated to this area and I was told, just briefly that "tastewise" ( if can say like that ) , good taidi after aprox 5y KM storage achieves the new fresh Gushu quality ( just based on chem. components analysis and they have done tasting as well ).
Simply said: that astringency will fade away after storage and if good tai di , than sweetness emerge is kinda similar intensity as gushu. Not sure if that it's not some another strategical move ( not on me , coz I'm not a buyer ) , but in general , that they had some public experiments done with some tea masters and blabla...don't know. However , he showed me some table where compounds like which are responsible for taste perception and apparently where pretty close.
Anyway, if I talk to some tea bosses in market ( I mean to those reasonable ones ) , they agree with Gushu hype and nonsense, yet , they stick to the saying: "we don't drink taidi cha because for your self you want only the good things;-) "