US tea production, the Great Mississippi Tea Company

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John_B
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Mon May 25, 2020 11:20 pm

I did an interview post with Jason McDonald on the Great Mississippi Tea Company (his venture). Their history is fairly short, under a decade, but they've already created a number of novel tea versions, winning some awards for that, and are ramping up production and distribution. This covers some of that background, and some advice for people considering producing tea at different scales.

He also started a venture growing tea in Hawaii. This is of particular interest to me since I lived in Hawaii during grad school, but he has since transferred ownership of that, and remains on only as a contributor. There are other Hawaiian farms and producers out there, so the venture to grow tea in the Continental US is more novel. One main Carolina farm is well known there (which he mentions in this), and that's about it.

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.co ... i-tea.html
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Bok
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Mon May 25, 2020 11:32 pm

@John_B Thanks for this, I had already read it on your blog, very interesting.

I'd be curious how the pricing would compare to similar quality teas from Asia. Although wages are higher in the US, the teas should probably be a little cheaper than their Asian counterparts (at least for US customers).

I've been disappointed in the past by New Zealand grown Taiwan style oolong. Pricey compared to TW oolong, but not as good.
John_B
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Fri May 29, 2020 3:37 am

I looked up the pricing related to an online comment and I think one version was listed for $9 per ounce, and another for $13, so that's essentially double those amounts per 50 grams. It's a bit expensive.

I wouldn't have expected it to cost less than equivalent Asian tea, but then there really couldn't be equivalent Asian tea. It's from the US; it's not the same thing.

Quality throws off even trying to make comparisons, beyond the origin uniqueness. I could judge quality in relation to my own preference and expectations, and framework of understanding related to having tried a good bit of tea, but I'm not sure anyone could really objectively isolate out issues of style and quality. Teas just vary, and demand plays as much or more role than some objective quality level found in the aspects.

Next one wonders how good it is. I'll drop the "all is relative" slant here; there's a good chance tea enthusiasts with similar exposure would evaluate that similarly. I don't know since I've not tried it.

People tend to carry biases into tasting experiences, so people who value US as an origin or are skeptical of that potential might see what they expect to see. I also tend to rate teas higher for being novel, versus just being good, and that wouldn't be universal. For example, I tried a "witch's broom" style sheng from Vietnam once (or maybe twice; I'm not sure where the second was from), and although I would've rated it as relatively bad tea it was interesting for being novel. Not everyone would see that as much of a relevant factor.
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LeoFox
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Thu May 20, 2021 8:32 pm

Has anyone tried these teas?
John_B
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Fri May 28, 2021 3:24 am

LeoFox wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 8:32 pm
Has anyone tried these teas?
I've not, but Jason is sending me some to try for review. They are using consultant support to grow, harvest, and process the teas, but still it seems problematic for them to reach the same standard final quality as Chinese teas within 6 or 8 years of the plants first going in the ground, and in 5 years or less of processing it themselves.

Making blends is something else; someone could do that well from the start. Figuring out which plants work best for which tea types within a few years seems too much to ask, never mind adjusting processing further. I'm not clear at all on how using plants younger than 10 years old typically affects quality.
Ethan Kurland
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Fri May 28, 2021 9:16 am

Bok wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 11:32 pm
I'd be curious how the pricing would compare to similar quality teas from Asia. Although wages are higher in the US, the teas should probably be a little cheaper than their Asian counterparts (at least for US customers).
Prices for food are low for some major products. Often that means our government has played a role. I would doubt tea will ever be so favored.

When I was a child, overall, products in supermarkets cost a few times their cost of production. Today the average is ten times the cost of production. Junk is put in prepared foods because five cents less in cost can mean 50 cents less in a retail price. So, sugar is replaced by corn syrup which may contribute to the significant increase in diabetes & obesity of the last few decades.

Some effects of government encouraging production of some agricultural products of the USA:

Corn syrup is in so much of our processed food; &, cattle who naturally would feed on grass are fattened with corn which is grown in such quantity that research is constantly being conducted to find more uses for it. Required by law 10% of gasoline for automobiles is ethanol made from corn.

Very favorable loans allowed farmers to buy driverless equipment for rice fields that are worked in fields 80 meters at a time (40 meters to the right & 40m to the left of the small tractor-type vehicle, pipes or whatever they are called, are extended). One worker can water or harvest thousands of square miles of fields in a day by pushing some buttons, if the land is flat.

For tea? I don't think so.
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LeoFox
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Fri May 28, 2021 3:31 pm

John_B wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 3:24 am
LeoFox wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 8:32 pm
Has anyone tried these teas?
I've not, but Jason is sending me some to try for review. They are using consultant support to grow, harvest, and process the teas, but still it seems problematic for them to reach the same standard final quality as Chinese teas within 6 or 8 years of the plants first going in the ground, and in 5 years or less of processing it themselves.

Making blends is something else; someone could do that well from the start. Figuring out which plants work best for which tea types within a few years seems too much to ask, never mind adjusting processing further. I'm not clear at all on how using plants younger than 10 years old typically affects quality.
Thank you for responding!

When you do try the tea, please update this thread!

I heard the hawaiian tea has a good reputation- and is even more costly.
John_B
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Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:38 pm

American tea, Great Mississippi Tea Company versions:

I just tried the first American tea I've had. Both versions were pretty good, and interesting for being novel.

The oolong was made in a Taiwan style, except for not being ball-rolled, and they matched the main flavor range in that unusually well, a complex set of floral tones. The black tea was unusual for being lightly oxidized. I liked it, but I've had oolong that was more oxidized (it's usually Oriental Beauty pushing the category boundary like that), so it was definitely unconventional. In re-trying it since it tastes a lot like yams, but that wasn't as clear brewing it Gongfu style the first time. The flavors could come across differently brewed another way or I could've just been sleepy that first time, reviewing it on a weekend morning. I had mentioned it tasted like root vegetables but wasn't clear on that direct a link.

In reviewing teas, and to some extent judging them, it seems potentially negative to say that they're good but implying that they could be higher in quality, more type-typical, or a better match for my preferences. I don't intend it as overly negative saying that a tea is good but one atypical aspect or limitation stands out. Reviews shouldn't be marketing content, where every tea is just fantastic. This producer makes a lot of interesting blends, catering to US consumer preference, and I expect those to be really novel and positive. For them not being very many years into production they're a lot better than I expected.

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.co ... k-and.html
Last edited by Victoria on Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Mod edit: merged topic
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LeoFox
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Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:46 am

Maybe this should be moved here
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1514

I wonder what their business model is. At their prices, and below, I can get fairly decent oolong and green tea from Asia. What is their value proposition? Why buy their tea and risk a bad experience? Based on the dry leaf, the processing looks very rough
John_B
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Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:07 am

About combining two threads with overlapping but separate themes, I don't get that part.

No tea version really justifies itself for anyone to clearly need to buy it. I can think of examples of what I see as the best value per type for experienced aspect range in vendor sources, but someone else could easily disagree with that judgment. For every vendor and product, surely.

Still, I can answer the question more directly, it's just that the underlying premise that there is some sort of neutral even ground for sources doesn't hold up, with judgment relating to value per experienced aspects. Consumer preference isn't like that.

Novelty adds potential perceived value; it's American tea. For the plain versions I wouldn't buy those based on experience only, in relation to value. Related to the rough appearance shaping process and machinery used isn't on par with standards in China and Taiwan, for sure. To some extent that really does impact brewed tea experience, and to some extent it's not so relevant. Someone needs to drink the tea to form an opinion, and it would be hard for anyone to isolate every potential cause as leading to a specific effect range.

The blends and flavored teas are more novel for being a unique thing. It would be harder to match up value for those to a standard Asian example, or over to David's, T2, or Adagio products. It's tempting to say that they will have problems selling them because pricing is on the wrong scale, more tied to better specialty tea range. Then again I don't know. I think awareness of tea is what has limited demand most, not cost, and them selling something for some particular per gram rate might not be meaningful to many people. If they can promote what they sell as much higher in quality and value than Harney and Sons versions maybe they can sell it at 2 or 3 times the pricing for those.

The tea is not for you (related to the last person commenting). That's fine. It's also not for the average pu'er drinker, who is more interested in talking about teaware, storage issues, or water mineral content than the experience of novel blends or flavored teas. Maybe there isn't enough potential target audience to connect with; actual success or failure in doing so will tell part of that story.
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