Wuyi Hype
Very eye opening account. - and good contrast to others:
https://www.kyarazen.com/wuyi-cliff-tea-part-1/
https://sweetestdew.com/blogs/tea-educa ... ow-nothing
https://www.kyarazen.com/wuyi-cliff-tea-part-1/
https://sweetestdew.com/blogs/tea-educa ... ow-nothing
Wuyi yancha is the most challenging type of tea that one can approach. For a multitude of reasons - every BATCH is different, and can never be replicated. The stars must align for such a batch to be possible, even if a farmer knows the "correct" style of processing by matching the level of roast according to the cultivar, year, date/time of harvest, etc. he still only can make a guesswork on how much moisture content the leaf has. not every leaf has the same moisture even from the same bushes. the dryer the tea gets, the more likely it gets burned. for many producers, its too risky on top of the fact that the weight of the tea is reduced quite significantly the more roasted and dry the leaf becomes. Lower yield is compensated for in higher pricing. To achieve just the right level of roasting (as "zu huo" as possible) such that the tea can age for a long time without turning sour and nasty due to excessive moisture, is something that is very difficult.
Last edited by Sunyata on Tue Feb 04, 2025 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
The modern trend is towards very fragrant style of processing - "xiang" over fullness and richness, flavor over mouthfeel, complexity over singularity. Hence producers carry out the "rou-nian"/shaping process aggressively in break the integrity of the leaf cell structure in order to coax out and release those aromatic compounds onto the outer surface. When brewed, first few infusions are very high but subsequently tea becomes metallic/flat after 3rd steep. This is the sad state of yancha, and taiwanese oolongs in general. The potential for ageing is thus low, and hence many tea sellers claim that oolong should be drunk young and a few years right after resting.
Agreed. Mercilessly honest.LeoFox wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2025 3:57 pmVery eye opening account. - and good contrast to others:
https://www.kyarazen.com/wuyi-cliff-tea-part-1/
https://sweetestdew.com/blogs/tea-educa ... ow-nothing
From all the complaints about the bad roast, it sounds like roasting is back in fashion, which in my books could be good news after all those years of greenish aroma focused processing. It might even lead to more focus on the body, since high roast and high aroma processing don't go well together.
I don't know what you bought in past, but this year ( or production dating couple of years ago. ) is definitely not the same quality ( or whatever body ) which was like back in 2017 - 20..m. wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2025 3:25 pmFrom all the complaints about the bad roast, it sounds like roasting is back in fashion, which in my books could be good news after all those years of greenish aroma focused processing. It might even lead to more focus on the body, since high roast and high aroma processing don't go well together.
It's mostly dead burned leaf which apart of some fruity candy aroma ( which is not in taste at all , or like 10% of it ) has nothing else to offer.
Moreover, as Sunyata already mentioned, after 3rd steep is completely empty. Despite brewing the way they do - 8g / 100ml.
That's why "after all those years of greenish aroma focused processing " ...because nothing else make sense to offer...if you are a decent person with taste for some taste and not a Fujian laoban who smokes 2 packs of cigs a day and don't care about what he sells as long as the profit goes.
The stuff we use to buy back then , was at least 6-8 steepings fruity liquid with balanced roast. Now, such a tea costs 5x more than back then. So obviously something is different here, and since I've been witnessing similar scenario in Yunnan in past few years, I'm kind of hesitating to play this game.
As I said, the tea lover side of me want's to have a good Yan Cha to offer but the conscious and ethical side ( and even the business side ) tells me it's BS, at least for the time being, before bubble bursts , like with puerh.
So if we add more stuff , after I go trough all samples , it's not gonna be any 1$/greed kinda thing.
Interesting experience indeed; thank you for sharing it.
I had thought that yancha was a bit like Burgundy:
- the cheap ones aren't very good or interesting, don't come from the classic locations in the region, and don't reflect what the region is capable of producing;
- the nice ones are nice, but are more expensive than what you can get elsewhere;
- the good ones are very expensive, are produced in tiny quantities, and can still be disappointing to some people;
- overall, the region is not 'worth it' compared to other regions, but some people really like the style, or really like to delve into its various little intricacies (like regions, sub-regions, producers, production styles, vintages, ageing), and the good ones can make you forget about the bad ones.
Andrew
I had thought that yancha was a bit like Burgundy:
- the cheap ones aren't very good or interesting, don't come from the classic locations in the region, and don't reflect what the region is capable of producing;
- the nice ones are nice, but are more expensive than what you can get elsewhere;
- the good ones are very expensive, are produced in tiny quantities, and can still be disappointing to some people;
- overall, the region is not 'worth it' compared to other regions, but some people really like the style, or really like to delve into its various little intricacies (like regions, sub-regions, producers, production styles, vintages, ageing), and the good ones can make you forget about the bad ones.
Andrew
Personally, provided you have the right tea guy with strong enough expertise and experience sourcing for teas from Wuyi, establishing a sort of relationship with a handful of farmers, over a few years, then its possible to get top tier yancha from the zhengyan region for $2-4/g. Now, this price is already higher than what many tea drinkers, even seasoned ones, are willing to pay... but this amount is also much lower than what the common ultra-pessimistic opinion that goes along the lines of "only top grade yancha is obtainable at $5-12/g beyond" or only if one is some sort of "high rank Party member with Guanxi" then one can obtain the good stuff.Andrew S wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2025 3:06 amInteresting experience indeed; thank you for sharing it.
I had thought that yancha was a bit like Burgundy:
- the cheap ones aren't very good or interesting, don't come from the classic locations in the region, and don't reflect what the region is capable of producing;
- the nice ones are nice, but are more expensive than what you can get elsewhere;
- the good ones are very expensive, are produced in tiny quantities, and can still be disappointing to some people;
- overall, the region is not 'worth it' compared to other regions, but some people really like the style, or really like to delve into its various little intricacies (like regions, sub-regions, producers, production styles, vintages, ageing), and the good ones can make you forget about the bad ones.
Andrew
In fact dare I say, if one is paying for anything ABOVE say $4/g, then most likely the tea comes in those tiny fancy 8g pouches meant solely for gift-gifting and flaunting one's wealth rather than having a true appreciation for the tea itself. I conjecture that the rich businessmen who are in the industry have to rely on "middle man", trusting them to keep a supply of such luxury teas, but these teas aren't actually that good in the first place since the farmer would never really sell the truly top tier stuff in fancy packaging, but simply pass off the above average stuff (which is already very good) as ultra-premium teas. Those teas which I consider to be pinnacle yancha can actually be found in the $4/g range, and no amount of money or guanxi can lead one to access such teas.
As to the last question why we still keep chasing the rainbow, its because stumbling upon pinnacle yancha is a once-in-a-lifetime experience. This usually comes in singular batches as in a big bag or a few Jin (2-5kg) in weight (never proportioned into tiny fancy packets), and once its sold out its gone for good. Go back the next year and the same farmer won't be able to replicate the same batch of tea. That's why for the actual good stuff, if you even manage to take a sample to try it and while pondering over whether to buy all of it, you are also competing against other yancha aficionados will quickly snap buy up the whole batch.
The bubble won't burst because there isn't a bubble to begin with, unlike the 2007 puerh bubble that was driven by a multitude of reasons (most important is that puerh was seen as an investment and can age into better and more expensive tea, both of which turn out to be false), and the fake hype regarding the scarcity of certain pressings. Today, we see all the reasons to be skeptical of such claims - there is an oversupply of too much puerh, or rather too much mislabeled puerh, circulating the chinese market (mainland china, taiwan, hk, SEA). Yancha is different. The "hype" is justified because the output of the core region tea that is available relative to the demand is totally disproportional. That's why I never write off yancha as a Burgundy lover's playground. 99% of yancha out there is bad... but that 1% that you stumble upon will make a grown man weep tears, like how some wine drinkers cry when they drink a good d'Yquem. This is coming from someone who drinks 99% puerh, and 1% oolong. A truly spectacular yancha will be my desert island tea full stop.aet wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2025 1:53 am
As I said, the tea lover side of me want's to have a good Yan Cha to offer but the conscious and ethical side ( and even the business side ) tells me it's BS, at least for the time being, before bubble bursts , like with puerh.
So if we add more stuff , after I go trough all samples , it's not gonna be any 1$/greed kinda thing.
Also, too much talk revolves around level of roasting... but yancha process is a chain and the initial stages of processing are absolutely critical as that will affect what the roaster believes to be the necessary roast level required. If the earlier stages are not done right, the roasting cant really save the tea much. Hence, there is alot of guesswork and intuition (which requires years of experience) for a roaster to estimate how much roast is necessary to bring out the best of each individual batch of tea. Zu-huo means to roast it to the adequate level where any further roast is too much... but this threshold/limit is so difficult to gauge even for experienced roasters. Because of 1) fear of burning good tea 2) lowering the final weight of roasted tea available to sell, producers instruct that the tea be roasted too little - hence the dry style of yancha processing is too risky, leaving us with plenty of yancha that has too much moisture in the leaf resulting in sour teas/ teas that can't age well. Also, if the fermentation/oxidation is too high, while the roast is lower, that isn't good either. You get almost a hongcha taste. So what producers do? They do low fermentation/oxidation pair with low roast - with all the manipulative rou-nian stage as I described earlier.
Apologies for sounding abit too enthusiastic but as a tea lover, its sad that one of the 2 most prestigious types of tea (it's said that the final destination of tea is either puerh or yancha) has attained such a status. What's happening in yancha, is far more insidious than the pulong trend I see in modern puerh. You can even extend this to the preference for modern style TGY over traditional TGY, or poorly made taiwanese gaoshan to excellent old school Dong Ding.
I think its time to educate the public about what to look out for when assessing quality in yancha. You have a few concepts like congwei, which really is reserved for sx cultivar specifically. Laocong shuixian has that mossy and/or woody character at the back (which is distinct from what the caramelly roast does to yancha). and a good one from particular terroir gives kengjian wei that is like herbaceous (herbs) but not green in taste. this herby taste is also different from what comes from ageing and present even in young yancha from the kengjian area.
So in yancha theres an interplay of different characters - xiang (fragrance), kengjian wei (if its from good terroir), congwei (if its sx), and aged aroma (if its aged). Certain varietals like rougui and some xiao pinzhong are more about the xiang, while lcsx is probably the least xiang. And the roasting, can think of it like coffee, imparts a sweetness and rounds out the tea. I always encourage ppl to look behind the roast, to see those characters.
I think its time to educate the public about what to look out for when assessing quality in yancha. You have a few concepts like congwei, which really is reserved for sx cultivar specifically. Laocong shuixian has that mossy and/or woody character at the back (which is distinct from what the caramelly roast does to yancha). and a good one from particular terroir gives kengjian wei that is like herbaceous (herbs) but not green in taste. this herby taste is also different from what comes from ageing and present even in young yancha from the kengjian area.
So in yancha theres an interplay of different characters - xiang (fragrance), kengjian wei (if its from good terroir), congwei (if its sx), and aged aroma (if its aged). Certain varietals like rougui and some xiao pinzhong are more about the xiang, while lcsx is probably the least xiang. And the roasting, can think of it like coffee, imparts a sweetness and rounds out the tea. I always encourage ppl to look behind the roast, to see those characters.
well, that's a bit depressing. thanks, @aet hahaha
good writeup
good writeup
Just confirms that money is usually almost always better spent on other teas than Yancha. Price/quality always worse than for other teas... where it not for that special Yancha flavour, I'd skip them, alas...
I've found this travel report (together with the next post) also helpful to get a feel for the current state of the Wuyi market.
https://www.cultofquality.com/i-barely- ... trip-2024/
Unfortunately the excessive demand placed on the area seems to have affected it in multiple negative ways, but perhaps that is to be expected. Curation should make a larger difference for yancha compared to other tea types.
https://www.cultofquality.com/i-barely- ... trip-2024/
Unfortunately the excessive demand placed on the area seems to have affected it in multiple negative ways, but perhaps that is to be expected. Curation should make a larger difference for yancha compared to other tea types.
One such reoccurring disagreement was on the value of lao cong tea trees. It is my humble yet firm opinion that older trees (in general, on average, etc.) produce better tea than younger trees. This was hotly denied by almost everyone in Wuyi. They argue, in summary, that lao cong trees produce tea with more forest flavor and less floral notes (which I agree with); they conveniently leave out the counter point that older trees produce tea with more yan yun.umami wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2025 9:55 pmI've found this travel report (together with the next post) also helpful to get a feel for the current state of the Wuyi market.
https://www.cultofquality.com/i-barely- ... trip-2024/
Unfortunately the excessive demand placed on the area seems to have affected it in multiple negative ways, but perhaps that is to be expected. Curation should make a larger difference for yancha compared to other tea types.
If you press this point, you may receive a barrage of arguments, including “not all old trees are good” (neither are all young trees), “leaves of old trees can’t take the high roast” (roast them appropriately – shape the process to the tea, not the tea to the process), “people want more fragrance” (except for those who don’t), the older trees are often qizhong and have unusual flavors which are difficult to understand and market (which is why they’re special!), and so on.
As a puerh drinker I'm chasing after pristine, forest teas with emphasis on both terroir and age. Both are equally important, though in yancha age is less important compared to terroir. Dare I say, yancha drinkers are searching for a different kind of experience and therefore set of conditions than that of a shengpu drinker. Old tree will give a smoother, gentler tea with low fragrance but rich, creamy and round in body. However, thats not the only thing that matters in tea - terroir is equally important. The reason why sankeng liangjian is so highly valued is because they are surrounded or are at least in close proximity to steep rocks and narrow ridges, streams, brooks, etc. The kengjian taste, which is deeply rich in minerals, cannot be replicated by simply adding fertilizers. Those can't replicate the minerals that are washed from adjacent rocks into the soil where the tea bushes are grown. Even in large micro-regions such as Hui Yuan Keng and Wu Yuan Jian, there is open area and closed area, hence there is great differences in quality within the micro-region itself. The roasting is carried out to "amplify" the perception of minerals, hence comparing it to dancong is unfair as dancong may be on average older but the terroir isn't as rich.