High Quality tea in Taiwan

[Bok]

That is some good news: https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan ... 2003831925

High-quality teas show 99.7% origin compliance

the caveat here seems to lie on "high quality", meaning it does not infer that everything produced in Taiwan is as compliant.

[Andrew S]

"Since 2023, the agency has required all domestically produced tea to be labeled with a place of origin, record of production and sale, or an organic label."

I don't know how burdensome that kind of requirement might be (nor do I know anything about Taiwanese tea regulations)...

Do you know if that kind of thing has affected smaller producers or sellers?

I can understand confiscating and testing packets of a large production, but I'd have sympathy if that had to happen to smaller producers, sellers or exporters.

I still have bitter memories about the time when Australian quarantine people sliced a vacuum-sealed packet of Hojo sencha open, probably fed it to some sniffer dogs, and then slapped an 'Inspected by Quarantine' sticker over the gaping wound...

Andrew

[Bok]

As most teas are sold nationally in smaller shops I doubt, they sliced open anything. Probably more concerning the larger brands that ship internationally – which leads me to think it is not the high quality segment. Those will not have the volume, nor be shipped much either. Usually that clientele can also tell what is what by tasting.

What is harder to tell is if tea merchants sell mediocre tea as tea from prime locations. Classic example is Dayuling or Oriental Beauty.

[teatray]

The question is, where to get this tea? Not something ultra-high-end (which was probably not the target category for this inspection anyway), but that which counts as high-quality locally and is sold locally, perhaps at elevated but still reasonable prices? My experience so far with non-Western-facing shops that accept int'l deliveries (one large, publicly traded company, one small Ali Shan shop) hasn't been great. I sometimes have luck with Western-facing vendors, incl. tea that was exceptional to me, but the prices are consistently high while the quality is not. Maybe I should just keep exploring non-W-f shops. Anyone have any tips?

[GaoShan]

"To enforce these regulations, periodic and random spot checks are conducted using fake shoppers to purchase tea for testing, it said."

I'd love to be an oolong mystery shopper, especially if I could drink some of the tea!

@teatray, I have the same issue, though I haven't tried any non-Western-facing vendors. One of these days we should find a couple reputable local shops and get a forwarding service to pick up some tea and ship it to us. Probably a bit expensive, but it might solve the quality conundrum. The only problem is finding these reputable local shops and persuading them to part with the good stuff.

[Bok]

The only problem is finding these reputable local shops and persuading them to part with the good stuff.

That's the thing – also for locals, you need to spend a lot of time in a lot of tea shops and drink a lot of average teas until you find a good one and/or they slowly open up the cabinet with the good stuff. Lot of time = many years of coming back repeatedly.

Good thing is that sampling is free in Taiwan in most tea shops, although common decency will dictate to either leave soon if you don't intend on buying in one place, or to at least buy something after a few samples, even if you were not convinced. Like any good party, overstaying your welcome is impolite.

The faster way is for Westerners still finding good people who curate and source from a variety of producers. Building those relationships is almost a full time activity and not easily done if not in the same country/region.

[GaoShan]

The only problem is finding these reputable local shops and persuading them to part with the good stuff.

That's the thing – also for locals, you need to spend a lot of time in a lot of tea shops and drink a lot of average teas until you find a good one and/or they slowly open up the cabinet with the good stuff. Lot of time = many years of coming back repeatedly.

Good thing is that sampling is free in Taiwan in most tea shops, although common decency will dictate to either leave soon if you don't intend on buying in one place, or to at least buy something after a few samples, even if you were not convinced. Like any good party, overstaying your welcome is impolite.

The faster way is for Westerners still finding good people who curate and source from a variety of producers. Building those relationships is almost a full time activity and not easily done if not in the same country/region.

Those are all good points. What's mystifying to me is how many Western-facing vendors located in Taiwan have mediocre or inconsistent tea. They're located in the country and presumably have good access and lots of time to build relationships, but the tea we get is often not great. I've yet to try my hauls from Hojo and Tea Masters, but this has been my experience with many other vendors. I'm not convinced it's solely a matter of what they believe customers are willing to pay. We see yancha and dancong selling for $5 or $10+ per gram, but we don't see anything similar for Taiwan tea (except for Anmo Art Cha, lol). Where is the Daxue Jiadao for Taiwan?

[Bok]

Those are all good points. What's mystifying to me is how many Western-facing vendors located in Taiwan have mediocre or inconsistent tea. They're located in the country and presumably have good access and lots of time to build relationships, but the tea we get is often not great.

There is another factor to count in: The vendor needs to have the palate and understanding of tea to match the quality. Some simply lack the ability to know good from bad tea. I can think of a few where I know some background information and it doesn't surprise me at all that the tea is mediocre. That goes for locals and for foreigners living there long time.

Also having time to build relationships does not mean that they actually do it. Time and effort.

[GaoShan]

There is another factor to count in: The vendor needs to have the palate and understanding of tea to match the quality. Some simply lack the ability to know good from bad tea.

This seems like a chicken-and-egg situation: if you don't have much good tea, it's unlikely you'll develop the palate for it. Personally, I know what I like, but I have no idea if my preferences match what others consider to be good tea. I like teas with lots of aroma and little bitterness, but more experienced drinkers seem to value other qualities. I do know that some teas I've mentioned as being good are also said to be good by others on this forum, which gives me hope.

[Andrew S]

There is another factor to count in: The vendor needs to have the palate and understanding of tea to match the quality. Some simply lack the ability to know good from bad tea.

This seems like a chicken-and-egg situation: if you don't have much good tea, it's unlikely you'll develop the palate for it.

I thought that Bok's comment was about vendors in tea locations, such as Taiwan - in which case, such people should have plenty of access to good tea if they take the time and effort to build knowledge and relationships (the kinds knowledge and relationships that will add real value to their business for people outside Asia). I don't have any sympathy for people whose business is simply to find some tea in Asia and ship it out to the Western world with a profit margin.

Consumers outside Asia obviously face a harder time trying tea in general - but that's a separate issue.

And, we can ask where the Daxue Jiadao for Taiwan is, but, just a few years ago, there was no Daxue Jiadao at all. It seems like there are just a few individuals who make the effort. I think the Western tea world is still embryonic (and we might end up looking back at these years fondly if growing markets end up increasing prices - eg, like old puer and such).

Andrew

[GaoShan]

There is another factor to count in: The vendor needs to have the palate and understanding of tea to match the quality. Some simply lack the ability to know good from bad tea.

This seems like a chicken-and-egg situation: if you don't have much good tea, it's unlikely you'll develop the palate for it.

I thought that Bok's comment was about vendors in tea locations, such as Taiwan - in which case, such people should have plenty of access to good tea if they take the time and effort to build knowledge and relationships (the kinds knowledge and relationships that will add real value to their business for people outside Asia). I don't have any sympathy for people whose business is simply to find some tea in Asia and ship it out to the Western world with a profit margin.

Consumers outside Asia obviously face a harder time trying tea in general - but that's a separate issue.

And, we can ask where the Daxue Jiadao for Taiwan is, but, just a few years ago, there was no Daxue Jiadao at all. It seems like there are just a few individuals who make the effort. I think the Western tea world is still embryonic (and we might end up looking back at these years fondly if growing markets end up increasing prices - eg, like old puer and such).

Andrew

I was actually going to edit my post to add that vendors in Taiwan really should be able to find ways to access good tea and develop their palate, unlike many of their consumers in the West. Despite the amount of competition, it may still be a seller's market for these vendors so they feel they don't need to make the effort.

You're right, a growing market for tea is a concern, though I'm not seeing that for gaoshan. Sadly, good gaoshan vendors have been closing down and I don't know of any new ones opening up. I only know about the Western market, however, and it could be different in other parts of the world.

I really hope the Western-facing tea market won't suffer due to the economic instability in the States right now. I have a feeling that many of these vendors' customers are American and they probably won't be willing to pay even more for good tea, leading vendors to choose lower-quality options to keep prices stable. I suspect that our weak currency and people's lower price tolerance are why Canadian shops rarely have top-quality tea, and it would be a shame if that spread to the U.S. In short, I hope Daxue Jiadao can stay in business (and also that a Taiwan equivalent will emerge at some point).

[Bok]

To a certain extent palate and taste can be trained. But some will just have "bad taste" no matter what. I do know a few well established old tea shops, which have terrible tea. It is what it is.

I do think really good (anything really) – tea, is always going to be a niche. Most people do not care or appreciate it, or are not willing to pay for quality. Which is fine. There simply isn't enough of it and I highly suspect it will be even less in the future...

It is a niche in Asia as well, what is available more is mid-level tea, which is close to "good" level on the Western market.