TeaForum.org

Hey tea lovers and friends,

I'm June Zhu from flowinversetea.com. I'm selling tea from my hometown, mostly Enshi China —a region rich in tea tradition yet still relatively unknown to the world. We work directly with local farms and communities, where I have personal ties and speak the local language, bringing you not just tea, but the stories and culture behind it.

One thing that sets us apart is our commitment to organic tea. Many of the best teas in Enshi are organically grown, even though they aren't certified. The farms we work with primarily sell within China and to known sources, so they haven't sought certification. However, these teas are cultivated using natural, sustainable methods, ensuring their purity and quality.

Contrary to some rumors that Chinese soil is polluted and tea can't meet EU organic standards even those in the yunnan moutains , Chinese tea can be organic and even can be further : biodynamic at least in Enshi!

One of our partner farms, which supplies to major gov officials in China, has earned multiple certifications for many years, including IMO, USDA, and CN-BIO. Notably, it's the Only Tea Farm in China to hold the Demeter certification, which is the oldest and most stringent organic label, requiring biodynamic farming practices.The soil here is naturally rich in selenium, adding unique health benefits to our teas. We're the exclusive distributor of this farm's teas outside of China, and the farm itself is a picturesque place, with cattle roaming freely and natural fertilization methods enhancing the land's fertility. (We didn't list their tea on our site since quantity is very limited. Please feel free to ask if you are interested)

We offer a variety of teas, including the uniquely sweet Lichuan Black Tea and the rare Enshi Yulu, one of the few steamed green teas in China. If you’re looking for something specific not listed, just ask!


You can explore our offerings on our website, flowinversetea.com, or follow us on Instagram at @itsflowinversetea. Feel free to connect with me personally at @flowingjune or via email at collab@flowinversetea.com.


As a special gift, if you make a purchase, I’d be happy to share my green tea notes which has infomation of 150 kinds of Chinese green tea.

So glad to meet you all!

June

Do you have more info on steamed chinese green tea? Do they use similar machines as in japan? How long is steaming usually done?

Welcome to Teaforum: Just some comments about words, "biodynamic" & "organic".

There's often not much difference between a biodynamic crop & an organic crop, if any. The difference may be in the farmers feelings, philosophy, etc. Leave the words out, & we will see that the work & the fields are free of chemical pesticides & fertilizers in the same way.

I met farmers who used the word biodynamic for farming organically unless crops were going to be decimated by insects. Then they would be sprayed w/ pesticides. (Or if the soil was out of nutrients, emergency use of chemical fertilizers might be employed.) So, unless we know what was done to the land recently, the word could be just about useless in that context.

The best circumstances for me, is a farmer consistently producing tea whose leaves don't carry a lot of pesticides or other unwanted chemicals. One might expect honesty about pesticides for teas whose taste benefits from insect bites (some black teas & oriental beauty).

The certifying agencies have prejudices, practices, & corruption that take away some confidence. I visited coffee farms in Laos that had never used chemicals because farmers did not have $ for them. Organic certifiers would never visit those farms because they would need to travel on extremely bumpy roads & sleep in places without the common amenities of hotels in wealthy countries.

If you drink & test your teas, & drink them throughout the year, I trust you would know if you were being poisoned by chemicals. I would rather trust the vendor directly than "Demeter" ratings or whatever. We can all be fooled by our sampling sessions, but if we keep drinking what we sell, we find out if something got by us or if leaves with time have changed. Then we could change what we say about a tea or stop selling a tea that got bad with time.

Cheers

LeoFox wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 05, 2024 9:38 am

Do you have more info on steamed chinese green tea? Do they use similar machines as in japan? How long is steaming usually done?

I realize ive tried some of this before from aet. - machine made and full hand made versions intended to copy gyokuro. Will say they are totally different from japanese tea and can be quite bitter and astringent if brewed with even slightly higher temperatures.

Website of this company claims zero bitterness. I have my doubts.

LeoFox wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 05, 2024 9:38 am

Do you have more info on steamed chinese green tea? Do they use similar machines as in japan? How long is steaming usually done?

hi Thanks for asking! Sorry I was away from this forum for a while. Went to a school and had my tea certification exam recently .

Enshi Yulu is steamed for 40-50 seconds until the leaves soften and emit a fragrance, while Japanese Gyokuro uses less fresh leaf volume, with more steam and a shorter steaming time of around 15-20 seconds.

We did some research on difference between the two back in March, here's our results if you are interested.

1. Tea Garden Cultivation and Harvesting
Enshi Yulu is grown in open-air tea gardens, where after the tea trees stop growing, they’re pruned and fertilized for the winter. Once the spring buds reach the standard of one bud with one or two leaves, handpicking begins. The process is strict, ensuring freshness, tenderness, and uniformity of the leaves.
In contrast, Japanese Gyokuro is harvested from shaded tea gardens, where the plants are covered with straw or reed screens about 20 days before picking to block sunlight.

2. Tea Varieties
Enshi Yulu uses three tea varieties: local small-leaf tea(we called taizi tree), E'Cha #10 (semi-tree), and Longjing #43 (shrub). The Japanese Yabukita tea tree, similar to Longjing #43, was cultivated in 1953 and is now the most common variety in Japan, covering 85% of tea plantations, and is the main source for Gyokuro.

3. Processing Methods
Both Enshi Yulu and Japanese Gyokuro use steaming in the production process, but there are several key differences:

- Steaming Time: Enshi Yulu is steamed for 40-50 seconds until the leaves soften and emit a fragrance. Japanese Gyokuro uses less fresh leaf volume, with more steam and a shorter steaming time of around 15-20 seconds.
- Drying: Enshi Yulu is tossed and cooled, followed by a high-heat roasting step called "Frying First Roast" to evaporate moisture in 12-15 minutes. Japanese Gyokuro, on the other hand, uses a “toss-dry” step at a lower temperature for 30-40 minutes.
- Rolling: Enshi Yulu uses a mix of rotating and paired rolling for 30-40 minutes, while Japanese Gyokuro involves repeated and longer rolling steps (120-150 minutes), increasing cell breakage for a finer texture.
- Exclusive Process: Enshi Yulu has a unique step called "Second Roast," where leaves are further shaped and dried at high temperatures to achieve their signature needle-like appearance.
- Shaping and Polishing: Enshi Yulu’s leaves are hand-rolled to a smooth, round, and glossy finish. In contrast, Japanese Gyokuro’s shaping is done during the rolling process.

4. Dry Tea Appearance
Enshi Yulu: Tight, smooth, needle-like leaves with a greenish-silver sheen and a fresh, nutty aroma.
Japanese Gyokuro: Flat, straight leaves with a dark green shine, often broken with a seaweed-like fragrance.

5. Brewing and Taste
Enshi Yulu: Brewed at 176°F-185°F(80-85°C), the leaves remain whole, with a bright green infusion. The taste is fresh, sweet, and long-lasting with floral aromas.
Japanese Gyokuro: Brewed at a lower temperature 131°F (around 55°C), it has a dark green liquor with a seaweed-like flavor and a purer, fresher taste.

Japanese Gyokuro has a fresher taste with a noticeable seaweed and umami (seafood-like) flavor. In contrast, Chinese Enshi Yulu leans towards a more robust and complex "gongfu" tea flavor, with a stronger aroma but less freshness compared to Gyokuro. Enshi Yulu’s distinct notes of bean and orchid fragrance are unique and absent in Japanese Gyokuro.

Ethan Kurland wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 05, 2024 8:20 pm

Welcome to Teaforum: Just some comments about words, "biodynamic" & "organic".

There's often not much difference between a biodynamic crop & an organic crop, if any. The difference may be in the farmers feelings, philosophy, etc. Leave the words out, & we will see that the work & the fields are free of chemical pesticides & fertilizers in the same way.

I met farmers who used the word biodynamic for farming organically unless crops were going to be decimated by insects. Then they would be sprayed w/ pesticides. (Or if the soil was out of nutrients, emergency use of chemical fertilizers might be employed.) So, unless we know what was done to the land recently, the word could be just about useless in that context.

The best circumstances for me, is a farmer consistently producing tea whose leaves don't carry a lot of pesticides or other unwanted chemicals. One might expect honesty about pesticides for teas whose taste benefits from insect bites (some black teas & oriental beauty).

The certifying agencies have prejudices, practices, & corruption that take away some confidence. I visited coffee farms in Laos that had never used chemicals because farmers did not have $ for them. Organic certifiers would never visit those farms because they would need to travel on extremely bumpy roads & sleep in places without the common amenities of hotels in wealthy countries.

If you drink & test your teas, & drink them throughout the year, I trust you would know if you were being poisoned by chemicals. I would rather trust the vendor directly than "Demeter" ratings or whatever. We can all be fooled by our sampling sessions, but if we keep drinking what we sell, we find out if something got by us or if leaves with time have changed. Then we could change what we say about a tea or stop selling a tea that got bad with time.

Cheers

Thank you for sharing such detailed information! It gave me more confidence!!
When we first started this business, we hesitated to label them as "organic" because the most remote areas(like Enshi) often unfamiliar with the concept of certification, so how could we prove to consumers that our tea is truly clean? Some people even say that China's soil has long been polluted by chemicals, making it impossible to produce clean tea no matter how it's grown. They don't even recognize China's domestic pesticide residue standards ( they are actually very strict)

Our initial solution was to collaborate with a Demeter-certified farm in Lichuan. However, we do not sell their products; instead, we sometimes give them as gifts to professionals in the tea industry. There are two reasons for this: 1) to prove that the land is indeed not polluted, and 2) to show that we can provide organic-certified tea if a customer requires it.

I had never known that some people in the world might obtain certifications through dishonest means, but we did have some concerns when we knew this farm at first time: why this farm had so many certifications irrelevant to China, yet had never sold its products outside of the country?


We came to the following conclusions:

1. This farm was recommended by a relative of mine who holds a certain rank in the gov, and the tea they drink internally comes from this farm. The certifications were likely required by these high-ranking officials because they are more concerned about drinking safe and healthy tea.

2. Enshi and Lichuan have always been very poor regions, so the local people lack scientific knowledge about ecological farming. This organic farm has provided a textbook-like model for everyone to learn from. In Lichuan, Demeter inspections are conducted as surprise visits, with no prior notice given to the farm. Their standards have genuinely provided a lot of helpful guidance on tea garden management.

When we came to the farm, we saw some cattle wandering around, followed by a 50-year-old worker named Yao, who has been in cattle raising for 20 years. It was his first time working in a tea garden, but he has been here ever since. Cattle are a key part of Demeter certification, and the tea garden is not allowed to use pesticides or chemical fertilizers, only homemade biodynamic compost, with cow dung being a key ingredient.

This is how all the other plants other than tea tree coming in to the story. On one side of the tea garden, there is an “herb garden” with plants such as dandelion, yarrow, and chamomile, which are rich in sulfur, potassium, and nitrogen. These are mixed with cow dung to create fertilizer. Every summer, the farmers layer grass and cow dung, letting the compost ferment for several months. Once fully decomposed, the compost is spread evenly over the soil in the tea garden. This natural organic fertilizer is easier for the plants to absorb. In addition, the tea garden also raises more than 30 pigs, whose manure is turned into biogas, which serves as a supplementary fertilizer.

Every 3 to 5 meters in the tea garden, there is a Magnolia officinalis tree. In winter, these trees lose their leaves. The reason for interplanting them is to attract tea pests. Tea pests prefer to eat the leaves of the Magnolia tree, which can then be burned to make organic fertilizer, helping to control tea pests and diseases. The Magnolia trees also increase the amount of diffuse light, which benefits tea quality and biodiversity.

One year, the tea garden faced an insect infestation, with hairy caterpillars covering the sticky rice grass. A Demeter expert named Liang provided on-site guidance: "Don’t rush to kill the insects the moment you see them. Insects help restore ecological diversity." Hairy caterpillars are not the "enemy"; they attract birds that feed on them, and those that survive will grow into beautiful butterflies.

These successful experiences in tea garden management have given other farmers the confidence to adopt proven methods directly. Tea gardens in Enshi and Lichuan are different from many private tea gardens in Yunnan. Since commercial development is still in its early stages, most tea gardens belong to local village cooperative, the villages), which are managed by the city government. Several years ago, the government mandated that all tea must meet China's domestic pesticide residue standards.

For our spring teas, which are picked before the Qingming, these teas are of the highest grade and cannot be harvested by machine, only by hand. As such, pesticide use would not be allowed, as it would reduce the value of the tea. If the tea fails the residue tests, we wouldn’t even be able to sell it domestically, let alone for export. So that neither the consumers nor I have to wait a year to see if we've been poisoned, there are more scientific methods to prevent this in advance.

Your insights about organic tea are extremely helpful and have given me clarity on whether we should pursue organic certification for these tea farmers, especially considering how expensive the certification can be while we are only starting our business. I welcome more of your thoughts on this topic, and I am very happy to be discussing with you.

FlowingJune wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 09, 2024 4:38 am

LeoFox wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 05, 2024 9:38 am

Do you have more info on steamed chinese green tea? Do they use similar machines as in japan? How long is steaming usually done?

hi Thanks for asking! Sorry I was away from this forum for a while. Went to a school and had my tea certification exam recently .

Enshi Yulu is steamed for 40-50 seconds until the leaves soften and emit a fragrance, while Japanese Gyokuro uses less fresh leaf volume, with more steam and a shorter steaming time of around 15-20 seconds.

We did some research on difference between the two back in March, here's our results if you are interested.

1. Tea Garden Cultivation and Harvesting
Enshi Yulu is grown in open-air tea gardens, where after the tea trees stop growing, they’re pruned and fertilized for the winter. Once the spring buds reach the standard of one bud with one or two leaves, handpicking begins. The process is strict, ensuring freshness, tenderness, and uniformity of the leaves.
In contrast, Japanese Gyokuro is harvested from shaded tea gardens, where the plants are covered with straw or reed screens about 20 days before picking to block sunlight.

2. Tea Varieties
Enshi Yulu uses three tea varieties: local small-leaf tea(we called taizi tree), E'Cha #10 (semi-tree), and Longjing #43 (shrub). The Japanese Yabukita tea tree, similar to Longjing #43, was cultivated in 1953 and is now the most common variety in Japan, covering 85% of tea plantations, and is the main source for Gyokuro.

3. Processing Methods
Both Enshi Yulu and Japanese Gyokuro use steaming in the production process, but there are several key differences:

- Steaming Time: Enshi Yulu is steamed for 40-50 seconds until the leaves soften and emit a fragrance. Japanese Gyokuro uses less fresh leaf volume, with more steam and a shorter steaming time of around 15-20 seconds.
- Drying: Enshi Yulu is tossed and cooled, followed by a high-heat roasting step called "Frying First Roast" to evaporate moisture in 12-15 minutes. Japanese Gyokuro, on the other hand, uses a “toss-dry” step at a lower temperature for 30-40 minutes.
- Rolling: Enshi Yulu uses a mix of rotating and paired rolling for 30-40 minutes, while Japanese Gyokuro involves repeated and longer rolling steps (120-150 minutes), increasing cell breakage for a finer texture.
- Exclusive Process: Enshi Yulu has a unique step called "Second Roast," where leaves are further shaped and dried at high temperatures to achieve their signature needle-like appearance.
- Shaping and Polishing: Enshi Yulu’s leaves are hand-rolled to a smooth, round, and glossy finish. In contrast, Japanese Gyokuro’s shaping is done during the rolling process.

4. Dry Tea Appearance
Enshi Yulu: Tight, smooth, needle-like leaves with a greenish-silver sheen and a fresh, nutty aroma.
Japanese Gyokuro: Flat, straight leaves with a dark green shine, often broken with a seaweed-like fragrance.

5. Brewing and Taste
Enshi Yulu: Brewed at 176°F-185°F(80-85°C), the leaves remain whole, with a bright green infusion. The taste is fresh, sweet, and long-lasting with floral aromas.
Japanese Gyokuro: Brewed at a lower temperature 131°F (around 55°C), it has a dark green liquor with a seaweed-like flavor and a purer, fresher taste.

Japanese Gyokuro has a fresher taste with a noticeable seaweed and umami (seafood-like) flavor. In contrast, Chinese Enshi Yulu leans towards a more robust and complex "gongfu" tea flavor, with a stronger aroma but less freshness compared to Gyokuro. Enshi Yulu’s distinct notes of bean and orchid fragrance are unique and absent in Japanese Gyokuro.

Very good research, thanks for sharing!

I will just add one personal experience. The Enshi Yulu not brewing well on cold. ( ice ) brew , like Gyo does. We tried in various water ( iced ) and results are kinda same. Enshi is unfortunately not drinkable that way ;-(
Many of my friends in Europe drink Gyokuro on melting ice in hot summers and they were looking for more affordable substitution for expensive JP Gyo.
We are still puzzled what could be a reason, only what comes in mind is that lack of shading process.
If you are working close with farmers, would be interesting to do the experimental batch with shading ?
Just an idea.

aet wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 09, 2024 8:33 pm

FlowingJune wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 09, 2024 4:38 am

LeoFox wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 05, 2024 9:38 am

Do you have more info on steamed chinese green tea? Do they use similar machines as in japan? How long is steaming usually done?

hi Thanks for asking! Sorry I was away from this forum for a while. Went to a school and had my tea certification exam recently .

Enshi Yulu is steamed for 40-50 seconds until the leaves soften and emit a fragrance, while Japanese Gyokuro uses less fresh leaf volume, with more steam and a shorter steaming time of around 15-20 seconds.

We did some research on difference between the two back in March, here's our results if you are interested.

1. Tea Garden Cultivation and Harvesting
Enshi Yulu is grown in open-air tea gardens, where after the tea trees stop growing, they’re pruned and fertilized for the winter. Once the spring buds reach the standard of one bud with one or two leaves, handpicking begins. The process is strict, ensuring freshness, tenderness, and uniformity of the leaves.
In contrast, Japanese Gyokuro is harvested from shaded tea gardens, where the plants are covered with straw or reed screens about 20 days before picking to block sunlight.

2. Tea Varieties
Enshi Yulu uses three tea varieties: local small-leaf tea(we called taizi tree), E'Cha #10 (semi-tree), and Longjing #43 (shrub). The Japanese Yabukita tea tree, similar to Longjing #43, was cultivated in 1953 and is now the most common variety in Japan, covering 85% of tea plantations, and is the main source for Gyokuro.

3. Processing Methods
Both Enshi Yulu and Japanese Gyokuro use steaming in the production process, but there are several key differences:

- Steaming Time: Enshi Yulu is steamed for 40-50 seconds until the leaves soften and emit a fragrance. Japanese Gyokuro uses less fresh leaf volume, with more steam and a shorter steaming time of around 15-20 seconds.
- Drying: Enshi Yulu is tossed and cooled, followed by a high-heat roasting step called "Frying First Roast" to evaporate moisture in 12-15 minutes. Japanese Gyokuro, on the other hand, uses a “toss-dry” step at a lower temperature for 30-40 minutes.
- Rolling: Enshi Yulu uses a mix of rotating and paired rolling for 30-40 minutes, while Japanese Gyokuro involves repeated and longer rolling steps (120-150 minutes), increasing cell breakage for a finer texture.
- Exclusive Process: Enshi Yulu has a unique step called "Second Roast," where leaves are further shaped and dried at high temperatures to achieve their signature needle-like appearance.
- Shaping and Polishing: Enshi Yulu’s leaves are hand-rolled to a smooth, round, and glossy finish. In contrast, Japanese Gyokuro’s shaping is done during the rolling process.

4. Dry Tea Appearance
Enshi Yulu: Tight, smooth, needle-like leaves with a greenish-silver sheen and a fresh, nutty aroma.
Japanese Gyokuro: Flat, straight leaves with a dark green shine, often broken with a seaweed-like fragrance.

5. Brewing and Taste
Enshi Yulu: Brewed at 176°F-185°F(80-85°C), the leaves remain whole, with a bright green infusion. The taste is fresh, sweet, and long-lasting with floral aromas.
Japanese Gyokuro: Brewed at a lower temperature 131°F (around 55°C), it has a dark green liquor with a seaweed-like flavor and a purer, fresher taste.

Japanese Gyokuro has a fresher taste with a noticeable seaweed and umami (seafood-like) flavor. In contrast, Chinese Enshi Yulu leans towards a more robust and complex "gongfu" tea flavor, with a stronger aroma but less freshness compared to Gyokuro. Enshi Yulu’s distinct notes of bean and orchid fragrance are unique and absent in Japanese Gyokuro.

Very good research, thanks for sharing!

I will just add one personal experience. The Enshi Yulu not brewing well on cold. ( ice ) brew , like Gyo does. We tried in various water ( iced ) and results are kinda same. Enshi is unfortunately not drinkable that way ;-(
Many of my friends in Europe drink Gyokuro on melting ice in hot summers and they were looking for more affordable substitution for expensive JP Gyo.
We are still puzzled what could be a reason, only what comes in mind is that lack of shading process.
If you are working close with farmers, would be interesting to do the experimental batch with shading ?
Just an idea.

This is quite interesting. In Enshi, Enshi Yulu is actually known for being cold-brewed or steeped in ice water, while many green teas aren’t suitable for cold brewing due to their bitterness. Although the ideal temperature for gongfu brewing Enshi Yulu is 176°F-185°F (80-85°C), I personally prefer a lower temperature around 149°F, which is very close to the brewing temperature of Japanese Gyokuro. We even had a customer from France who bought our Enshi Yulu to make a cold brew wedding tea, and she loved it.


I have two guesses, which might be wrong, so feel free to correct me:

1. Enshi Yulu is made from very tender tea leaves. The picking standard is typically equal and above one bud and two leaves before Chinese Qingming Festival. This is also the lowest grade we sell. I’ve noticed that many Enshi Yulu teas available internationally, based on what I found on Google, are harvested later, with thicker and older leaves ( it said before rain. before rain is half month later than before Ming, and price dropped huge! ). In China, the fresher and more tender the tea, the better, and harvesting later than Qingming, with large stems and leaves, is considered a sign of lower quality. I'm not saying it's bad, since there are indeed some peple prefer green tea even with stem. It's just the price should be way cheaper! One way to test my theory would be to compare the leaf buds from our Enshi Yulu with yours. If you don’t mind, you could check the steeped leaves of your tea. It's kinda hard for sellers to mislead about the leaf grade in Enshi Yulu because of the steaming process; the leaves fully open and resemble fresh leaves after brewing, and you can easily tell how tender the buds are by looking at the photos. I uploaded our photo in attached file.
2 Perhaps we just have different preferences when it comes to the taste of cold brews. If that's the case, maybe you could tell me what brand of Japanese Gyokuro you’re drinking, and we could do a taste experiment together. It will be fun to learn tasting peference!

Regarding the role of shading, here’s some information from our discussion with the Enshi tea producers of Enshi Yulu yesterday. Since we haven't visited Japan for a direct comparison, the following content is for reference only, and we welcome anyone with more insights to join the discussion.

The shading period for Japanese Gyokuro is about 20 days, and it involves two main methods: direct covering and regional shading. Both aim to block strong sunlight, reducing photosynthesis, which enhances the green color of the leaves and is believed to increase the proportion of theanine, thereby reducing bitterness and enhancing umami. This shading technique was actually used in China during the Song Dynasty, where rice straw was used to cover tea plants and reduce sunlight exposure. However, like the steaming process, this method was eventually discontinued in China.

In Enshi, there is no strict need for artificial shading. The region’s natural conditions—high altitudes (with major production areas over 1000 meters above sea level), forest coverage exceeding 70%, and the presence of the world’s longest underground river—mean that the tea trees are mostly in the mist rather than under direct sunlight.

Japan, on the other hand, has a maritime climate（that's where its special flavor from） and lower altitudes, so without artificial shading, the tea plants would receive too much sunlight. Moreover, Japan follows a unified, scientifically precise method of tea cultivation, which results in more consistent quality for Gyokuro. In Enshi, the tea quality often depends on the weather of that particular year, and tea farmers don’t typically emphasize climate management to ensure quality. Both Enshi tea farmers and the tea industry there still need time to mature and develop further.

I’ll likely return to Enshi this winter, no later than after the Chinese New Year next year. If the opportunity arises, I’d like to try shading as a comparison. Would you be interested in joining me for this experiment then?