JB Weld

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tealifehk
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Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:26 am

So I got an 80s pot recently and there is a hairline crack running down and around from the spout, about 1/4" down from the bottom of the spout. When I put hot water in the pot, the clay contracts and the crack looks much more serious. I decided to buy some JB Weld on eBay. It should get here next week. I was on the fence about using it, so I decided to look up the SDS:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0411/ ... 8289892783

JB Weld (two tube) contains this substance, which then converts to BPA, which is also nasty:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epichlorohydrin

BPA:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol ... th_effects

Now I feel like JB Weld is not really something I want to be using on the spout of a teapot. :o
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pedant
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Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:49 pm

according to their faq, it's not toxic.
https://www.jbweld.com/pages/faqs wrote:Is J-B Weld toxic?
No. When fully cured, J-B Weld is non-toxic. However, we do not recommend consuming the product.
however, what's the definition of toxic?

see also: https://jbweld.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/com ... -with-Food

i probably wouldn't use it for major repairs in direct contact with tea.
however, i personally might consider using it if just a very small amount would be exposed, but maybe others wouldn't.
i'd definitely use it for things like broken lid knobs, handles, etc.

urushiol lacquer is maybe the best choice despite being way less convenient to work with.
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tealifehk
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Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:02 am

pedant wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:49 pm
according to their faq, it's not toxic.
https://www.jbweld.com/pages/faqs wrote:Is J-B Weld toxic?
No. When fully cured, J-B Weld is non-toxic. However, we do not recommend consuming the product.
however, what's the definition of toxic?

see also: https://jbweld.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/com ... -with-Food

i probably wouldn't use it for major repairs in direct contact with tea.
however, i personally might consider using it if just a very small amount would be exposed, but maybe others wouldn't.
i'd definitely use it for things like broken lid knobs, handles, etc.

urushiol lacquer is maybe the best choice despite being way less convenient to work with.
BPA is still considered food safe, but a lot of people are touting limited exposure, e.g., to canned foods since many (all?) of the cans used have linings which contain BPA. Nalgene switched materials because of the BPA concerns and I stopped using my Lexan bottles because of the BPA issues. I hear you on using a little bit that will only make minimum contact with tea, but one of the recent suggestions during the BPA uproar was not to use BPA-eluting bottles with hot liquids. The crack I wanted to fill is a hairline crack but it does look like a chunk of the spout is gonna fall out if I don't fix it. I kinda want a silver tip on the pot. lol
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pedant
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Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:28 am

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalgene#BPA_concerns wrote:In November 2007, the national Canadian co-operative retailer Mountain Equipment Co-op removed all hard, clear polycarbonate plastic water bottles (including Nalgene-branded product) from their shelves and replaced them with BPA-free Nalgene bottles.
...
While unpublished studies in 2008 and 2009 by Oregon State students suggest that BPA does not leach from polycarbonate plastic under extreme conditions, BPA is not the only component of plastics which can mimic estrogen and act as an endocrine disruptor.[13] Unfortunately, BPA-free Tritan plastics were later found to leach other estrogenic chemicals in a cell-based assay.[14] Eastman Chemical, the manufacturer of Tritan, will not disclose any information about this product or its composition.[15]
unfortunately, i think most bpa-free plastics can still leach other (suspected) endocrine disruptors.

i don't think there's enough data out there to conclusively comment on health risks for plastics in general (including bpa-free ones) or for jb-weld in contact with food (hot liquids or otherwise). especially in a quantifiable way. if there was, then maybe there would be some legislation regarding its use.

for me personally, however, since i am already comfortable with drinking out of plastic cups of unknown age and claims (just like with tea lol), i'd be ok with drinking from a teapot with a small amount of jbweld.

is it possible that jbweld leaches way more bpa than an equivalent amount of (not-bpa-free) food-safe plastic? who knows. you'd have to do an experiment to find out though, and i don't know if anyone has done it. MAYBE jbweld has, but i don't think they would release the numbers.
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tealifehk
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Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:17 am

Yes, it appears many types of plastic and glass (!) both disrupt the endocrine system and are contributing to a rapid decline in male fertility. That's one way to solve the overpopulation issue!

JB Weld is pretty much BPA with a little iron once cured...

"However, it is estimated that the global annual output of BPA 6.8 million tonnes.[20] It is a key monomer in production of epoxy resins[21][22] and in the most common form of polycarbonate plastic."

"The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has ended its authorization of the use of BPA in baby bottles and infant formula packaging, based on market abandonment, not safety.[4] The European Union and Canada have banned BPA use in baby bottles."

"Epoxy resins containing bisphenol A are used as coatings on the inside of almost all food and beverage cans;[26] however, due to BPA health concerns, in Japan epoxy coating was mostly replaced by PET film.[27]"

"In 2006, the US Government sponsored an assessment of the scientific literature on BPA. Thirty-eight experts in fields involved with bisphenol A gathered in Chapel Hill, North Carolina to review several hundred studies on BPA, many conducted by members of the group. At the end of the meeting, the group issued the Chapel Hill Consensus Statement,[57] which stated "BPA at concentrations found in the human body is associated with organizational changes in the prostate, breast, testis, mammary glands, body size, brain structure and chemistry, and behavior of laboratory animals."[58] The Chapel Hill Consensus Statement stated that average BPA levels in people were above those that cause harm to many animals in laboratory experiments. It noted that while BPA is not persistent in the environment or in humans, biomonitoring surveys indicate that exposure is continuous. This is problematic because acute animal exposure studies are used to estimate daily human exposure to BPA, and no studies that had examined BPA pharmacokinetics in animal models had followed continuous low-level exposures. The authors added that measurement of BPA levels in serum and other body fluids suggests the possibilities that BPA intake is much higher than accounted for or that BPA can bioaccumulate in some conditions (such as pregnancy).[57]"

"The major human exposure route to BPA is diet, including ingestion of contaminated food and water.[175] Bisphenol A is leached from the lining of food and beverage cans where it is used as an ingredient in the plastic used to protect the food from direct contact with the can.[176] It is especially likely to leach from plastics when they are cleaned with harsh detergents or when they contain acidic or high-temperature liquids."

You can't avoid everything nasty and it seems you can't avoid BPA, which we all have in our urine, especially from canned products, but you can try to avoid it! ;)
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Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:54 pm

tealifehk wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:26 am
So I got an 80s pot recently and there is a hairline crack running down and around from the spout, about 1/4" down from the bottom of the spout. When I put hot water in the pot, the clay contracts and the crack looks much more serious. I decided to buy some JB Weld on eBay...
fixing a crack is tricky, cause you can'not get the glue inside of it, and you don't want to run on the outside neither, that would just be ugly + create lot of the bpa exposure. if the crack doesn't leak, i think, you'll better just leave it and use it as it is. or it is possible to do a metal staple repair, which can look totally awesome if well done, but it is a bit questionable if it would actually stop the crack from growing.

on the other hand once the pot gets broken in two pieces, it is possible to glue them together in such a way that the glue is completely inside the crack and there is a almost no exposure, like maybe a small fraction of square millimeter. and in that case, if the epoxy is well cured (and this is the important part, getting the right amount of both compounds), personally i think wouldn't worry about the bpa's that much. as mentioned, if you ever had canned tomatoes, then you've probably already consumed more bpa than that.

p.s. there are different epoxy formulas, most of them (or at least the most common ones) contain bpa, even those labelled medical grade. from what i've read somewhere some times ago, there are some that are high heat resistant, and some that have very high chemical resistancy, but not both.
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tealifehk
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Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:55 pm

I think the amount that would be in contact with the tea, even if I filled the crack now, would be minor, and the BPA would get covered up with tea residue pretty quickly as well. Either way I have to season the pot, so maybe I could be seasoning the BPA at the same time! ^_^

I did think about the staple repair thing, but don't know who could do it and it would certainly be tricky on a spout!
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pedant
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Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:47 am

do you have a good pic of the damaged pot?

use tape to mask off the area (both inside and out) around the crack and prevent application to unaffected surfaces.
masking tape works ok IME.

also, even though it has a long cure time, it does start to thicken up a little in 5 mins or so. better to apply it immediately after mixing well.
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Victoria
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Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:38 am

pedant wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:47 am
do you have a good pic of the damaged pot?

use tape to mask off the area (both inside and out) around the crack and prevent application to unaffected surfaces.
masking tape works ok IME.

also, even though it has a long cure time, it does start to thicken up a little in 5 mins or so. better to apply it immediately after mixing well.
Also, use a wet Q-tip to clean up exterior of crack area right after applying, to eliminate oozing epoxy. Have several moist ones on hand, roll discard, use a new one..etc. But only just enough to eliminate any protruding epoxy. If you have more than one piece to glue together, wait a few days and proceed to next, leaving enough time for pieces to completely set. After I’m finished, I wait a month or so for epoxy to completely cure before using. Overkill but that’s how I do it.
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tealifehk
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Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:11 am

I've actually used JB Weld on wood knife handles for years--I fixed my first pot with it about four years ago when the handle snapped off! I use toothpicks and then remove the excess as best I can.

Yes, I would use minimal amounts. I may just wait to see if I get a clean break since as .m. pointed out that will allow for a more seamless bond. I'll leave the spout be and wait to see if it progresses to the point that a chunk falls out! JB Weld cures super fast with heat, too, so filling the pot halfway up with boiling water might help with the cure :lol:'

I'll take a pic of the damage tomorrow. The crack does appear more obvious now than when I first noticed it after putting hot water through the pot. I don't know if it took a hit during shipping (the seller packaged the pot extremely poorly) or if it was an old crack that just hadn't been noticed.
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MmBuddha
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Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:34 pm

I’d probably hunt down a Kintsugi specialist in your case, although the cost might not seem worth it depending. Perhaps watch a few YouTube videos and give it a shot. What could go wrong? :) I have no idea what if anything Urushi lacquer leaches into hot water, but I’d throw my lot in with it in preference to J-B Weld any day.
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tealifehk
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Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:11 am

I've heard that plates that were kintsugi'd were not used again, for whatever reason. I can't remember who I was discussing it with! I had salad served at a tonkotsu place in Tokyo and the plate I was eating from had been repaired at the edge.

Ingestion can result in gastroenteritis. Renal disease has been
reported after ingestion, but is extremely rare.
Inhalation of smoke from burning poison ivy caused
fatal acute lung injury in an adult.
0.2.3 VITAL SIGNS
0.2.4 HEENT
0.2.4.1 ACUTE EXPOSURE
A) WITH POISONING/EXPOSURE
1) Ingestion may lead to skin flushing, as well as
itching and burning of the lips.

I'm just going to leave the pot as is now. The crack is barely visible when the pot is cool; it takes heat for it to really show up!
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steanze
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Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:40 pm

Mm urushi is commonly used for making tetsubins: they are hung from two holes on the bottom that are then closed with urushi lacquer. Urushiol is definitely very irritating when it is not cured, but after it is cured properly it should be fine.
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tealifehk
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:37 am

I think it was Lawrence, aka MarshalN, who said kintsugi'd plates should never be used again, but I could be wrong. And good point re: urushi and tetsubin! I have a modern tetsubin that does not involve urushiol at all. It is coated on the outside (not the inside) so it can even be used on a gas stove. The company that produces them have taken a lot of pointers from the Mainland Chinese, since they buy more modern tetsubin than anyone else nowadays apparently!

I went ahead and used JB Weld on the crack. It is such a minor hairline crack that the amount used was really negligible, and the epoxy should get covered over with waxy compounds from the tea liquor pretty quickly!

It turns out one of the postal carriers that serves my building has been OPENING my packages. It's possible the teapot was damaged by the postman/postwoman involved since a (free) vintage teapot in the same box arrived destroyed. When I asked the vendor about it, I was told that it had been very carefully packed. I have had three packages opened in the last few months before they were left with security downstairs. The postal employee never buzzed upstairs, which is standard procedure. With this last package (from cwarren), the box had been completely opened and then the flaps folded to hold it together. Two tea samples were stolen from inside the box!
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